If you're an AFAP member, get on the website and click on 'Pilot Groups', then 'National Council (Other Operators)'. From there, click on VARA, and see 'EBA Update 13'.

In a nutshell, whilst VARA pilots can now apply for Virgin Group positions via the intranet, there is nothing to say they will get priority over external applicants.

Hope this helps.

Triplefox,

The vibe I got was never, but to be fair they didn't elaborate. The reason was because there are already too many on hold for domestic and vai. I honestly don't know what is going on over there and I would like some closure on this soon as we are approaching 3 yrs. Surely it can't go on much longer....

Interesting.

I heard all new hires last year for CRZFO were selected off the domestic hold file.

If you are waiting for a call from VA after 3 years on the hold file, you are dreaming. Prove me wrong, but it won't happen. Most of us have moved on to greener pastures anyway.

Hillarious.

I think XRX has offered some good advice, but temper your enthusiasm a little when considering a career with VAA.

Yes you will have a GDOJ number that will buy you what ever it is worth on the day but the puppies who want it all, and want it NOW then the road to a Command will be a very long one.

For those that will accept every seat change and every type change and every base change as another chapter in a long and challenging career then they will do well.

Be prepared to sit in the RHS for a long time as the VARA guys will sit patiently in their current positions waiting for a VAA position that they will be willing to accept. That's assuming they do get included on the VAA list.

A new hire today stands behind every VAA/VAI/VANZ/VARA piLot before he/she is offered a Command. And that command will be most likely be at the bottom of the pecking order.

Great company and I do enjoy the job and the people but it is VERY different for a new hire joining tomorrow as far as career progression.

XRX - I know its only your opinion and things can get taken out of context on here, but I don't know anybody on hold who was offered a CRFO and knocked it back - pride or otherwise. VA emailed all of us to ask if we'd be interested in CRFO after initially offering domestic FO spots only. Most that I know of said 'sure thing'. Since then, one person who interviewed sometime after me got on one of the last FO courses, and another who was offered CRFO only took a CRFO spot. So its luck of the draw, as with most things in Australian aviaition. How many initial CRFOs who took the rubbish pay with zero career progression thought they'd be where are they are now? Its all luck mate. Most of us on hold would like a bit of that luck, but the landscape has changed and that's just the way things roll.

mtrench - greener pastures than an Australian domestic jet FO gig with a full service carrier? You're a genius! Very envious.

Have to be in it, to win it ;) but i was a lucky one when the musical chairs stopped.

So, looks like there is finally some movement, albeit internal at the moment. What's the liklihood of external applications being accepted again in the next 6 to 12 months?

My advice is take the first offer
 

Based on the movement within the company - it appears that with the current arrangements (VARA not integrated yet), a new applicant could expect to move something like: CRFO (VAI) -> FO (VANZ) -> FO (VAA/VAI narrowbody then A330) -> SFO (VAI widebody) -> CAPT (ERJ) -> CAPT B737 -> CAPT A330 -> CAPT B777. (This isn't necessarily how you'd bid, but the order of opportunity as vacancies became available).

Of course, there is CAPT B737 (VANZ), but my understanding is all current VANZ FO's are siloed for first commands (happy to be corrected).

When (and if) VARA integrates, the additional positions within that company would come into the mix somehow (to be determined).

So in summary, It's highly likely that any outside hires (regardless of "what" you were interviewed for in the past) will join as CRFO, or in the future - VARA FO (much as ad-astra implied).

As others have expressed - you have to be in it to win it. GDOJ is everything in this game.

IMO it's a great company to work for (compared to the previous) and you'll enjoy working with some great people (same as the previous).:ok:

My advice is to have a think about what you want.
 

How old are you? Where do you want to be in 10-15 years time? What do you want to do with your career?

If per chance you would happily see yourself RHS of a domestic narrow body jet or perhaps like the idea of being a reasonably well paid turbo prop Captain then I think you are on the right track in this thread.

It's a great job but I think it's important to understand how aviation and the world economy has changed. If you want to get in I'd forget about trying to second guess types and seniority, it's been done before and few got it right, very right.

I'd expect to see a clause in the next Eba limiting type changes. All that training will get extremely expensive for the company. This is partly why Qantas silos its groups.

Definitely agree

Even thou the quick commands like in the early days no longer exist, it is still a better position being a FO here than Command at same previous.

I know there's a bunch of blokes ATR endorsed but not doing any flying, anyone know when the new aircraft are coming that they'll be on and the possibility of future courses for the guys on the VARA hold file??

Speedjet,
I guess it depends on what you're looking for. I took a $30k pay cut to change jobs from my previous employer, but it was completely calculated.

Working for a narcissistic management was wearing thin, and the lifestyle of a regional gig had diminished over successive EBA's to the point it wasn't worth it any more. In short, the remuneration package, combined with a toxic management no longer met my expectations, and I intended to leave anyway.

It just so happened that VAA was hiring at the time I was looking for another job, and it was only through the persistent nagging of former workmates who had moved to VAA that I actually applied for the job there. I never expected an interview, let alone a job offer.

I was quite concerned about the pay cut (but had budgeted for it) as well as being thrown outside my comfort zone after almost 15 years in the old job. I was mainly after lifestyle, which I get here, but I could easily make up the cash shortfall by working some of the additional days off (3 plus 4) that I get in the new job if I really needed to. A type change 2 years ago put me $30k in front of what I was earning in my old job.

The only thing that I miss about the old job is the crew I used to work with, and the type of flying we did.

I was eligible for an ERJ command in Perth about 3 years ago, but chose not to bid for it. That would have been 3 years in the company. In the previous job it took 6 or more years.

Yes, I still believe (more so) that I made the right choice. In this job I have more choices 😀

3 yrs to an Ejet command - those were the days!

All good points. For those of us in the left seat, it is worth considering that it could be 15 or more years until you see the left seat again. Also taking 2 steps back to cruiser isn't easy either.

Reality check----

Compared to QF you guys aren't doing too bad I would have thought.....:=

From what I hear, I'm not sure many would do it again the second time around. I think the position works well with cadets and the low time GA guy/gal. The multi thousand PIC Regional skipper not-so-much. Just MHO and definitely different for every individual.

Beggars can't be choosers and in this country we are the equivalent of Holden 10 years ago. Eventually the thirst for cheap fares (and cheap everything because of rising house prices) will see introduction of cheaper overseas options in all industries.

I'd suggest taking what you are offered if you want to work in Australia as a pilot in an RPT/big company capacity.

If you want, on the other hand, to fly widebodies and see the world I'd start out by reading the 'do's and don'ts' of life in the Middle East and take it from there.

Tiger has without a doubt a quicker path to command followed by Jetstar then Virgin and QF. Ultimately it comes down to what you want and not what is socially acceptable or popular. Everyone's situation is different and as you go through the life stages your own desires will change. Good luck to all and Welcome to any new comers.