Flying the DC3
 

I love these old classic DC3's and flew in them as a boy.

As a PPL who only flys lighties I am fascinated to know what these AC are like to fly.

After reading the thread by Skyways about the work of Classic Wings I have started this thread to invite pilots to share their impressions and insights about what these old girls are like to fly.

Some of us who have never and probably will never get to fly one would love to know what its like. What peculiar characteristics they have and how hard was it to learn to fly them well.

I read an article on AVWEB by a pilot in the US who was trained and endorsed to fly the B17 bomber for a Warbirds flying group a few years ago and it was great reading.

The DC3 is WONDERFUL to fly! I well remember, having just come straight off light twins, the high cockpit position and tremendous noise and clatter of my first take-off. Back then no-one thought to fit intercom, so the instructor had to shout over the noise. Full takeoff power MUST always be used!
At training weights, take-off is easy enough, as the tail comes up when it wants to. The only thing to watch is don't force it up too quickly or you get a nice gyroscopic swing happening. Lift off at 81 knots, accelerate to 90 knots and you are theoretically OK if an engine quits.
In flight, it's SLOW, but a delight to fly and can be flown very accurately despite the 200 lb flight attendant running up and down the cabin with tea and coffee. The ailerons are quite heavy, but elevator is light and easily trimmed. Everything seems to happen in slow motion, which makes it a great machine for primitive activities like NDB approaches.
Air-conditioning in flight is 100% reliable - open the side windows.
In rain, they all leak, so a large rubbish bag with a hole cut in the base to pull over your head is the best way to keep dry. At least the leaks stop once it ices up, but then the noise starts as the props chuck ice chunks off against the fuselage just behind your ears.
Wheeler landings at light weight are also easy enough - assuming little or no crosswind. Approach at about 85 knots until a landing is assured, over the fence at 75 knots, close the throttles and let it settle. As the mains touch 'pin' it on with a very light forward pressure on the stick. When the tail is ready to come down, relax the slight forward pressure and apply slight aft pressure to get it down onto the tailwheel. All the time working the rudders to keep it straight.
It's when it's heavy at aft c. of g. that it can bite. On takeoff the tail doesn't want to come up, so it takes a bit of a push while counter-acting the gyroscopic swing on the rudders. Landing at aft c.g. / high weight is less forgiving if any swing is allowed to develop, especially in a crosswind as the tail comes down. But anyone who has been taught to fly properly should master it soon enough so that landings are 'greasers' 9 times out of 10. On grass or mud, it can also be 3 pointed - as it had to in some remote strips - by crossing the fence at 70 knots. We applied a crosswind limit of 20 knots on hard surfaces and 10 knots for 3 pointers. We operated up to 28,000 lb gross weight, but I think the Aussie DCA of the time set the gross weight at around 26,000 lb.
Ah, the memories.......

Absolute joy to fly and operate :}

Jeeze I must be close to one of the few current DC3 Guys (and probably the youngest :}:}) around with the loss of the WA one. :(

Not hard to fly if you have respect for every moving part of a radial engine and a bit of Tailwheel time.

Anticipation is the key in my experience, as the ailerons are a looonnnggg way out on the wing so she is not going to roll in a hurry. Huge rudder so engine failure are easy to handle... just remember not to load her up too much!

We operate ours at 26900lbs Max AUW and we operate 17kts X on a dry runway.

Here are a few pics of our NZ one.. We do scenic rides in fact, I'll be out flying her on Sunday if the weather stays okay.


Cheers

Wombat

Picasa Web Albums - Andrew - DC3

The DC-3 is a terrific machine to fly however just when you think you have it mastered it decides to bite you in some form, its an aircraft that you really have to fly, we've operated one at EN for nearly 20 years and its still extremely popular with the corporate market. The key is lots of maintenance and don't ask it to do to much. Have a look at www.shortstop.com.au and you'll see a bit more about it, anytime you are out at EN pop in and I'm sure someone will give you a tour and let you know what its like to fly.

Very Nice Photos 'Wombat'.

Did I have the pleasure of flying with you at Wanaka last Easter??
I am planning to be there again in 2010!!:D:D

So......how do i get a gig flying one? Have a spare left nut i'm willing to donate!!! :ok:

Save it Dave it will probably freeze off.Thats after your pants get soaking wet through the leaking windscreen:rolleyes:

Great photos, Wombat.
Youngest? Surely that's a relative term! Maybe 'least old' might be more appropriate ... :)
Still, I can't talk in that regard, that's for sure.

Cheers

I have had the pleasure of flying in her I think in 2005 or thereabouts. I was on a cruise on the Pacific Sky around NZ at the time and one of the shore tours you could do was an hour or so flight around Auckland. Hardly a choice to make for me at the time, so I left my travelling companions to do other things and set forth. If memory serves me right the inside had been fitted out with 737 seats and it had the karkie colours shown with the big WB at the time. Fond memories and a great day out it was too.

Has the Hardy's one at Darwin flown lately? I went for a spin in it as a passenger back in 2002 I think it was but haven't heard if its been kept airworthy since then.

I assume they would be thirsty beasts. Those radial engines would have to use a lot of fuel. But don't they sound magic.

Nice looking aeroplane Wombat :ok:

The DC3 can bite. A full flap power on stall will almost certainly result in a savage (and I mean, savage) wing tip stall and wing drop. The RAAF Dakotas had rubber de-icing boots the full length of the wing leading edge. I had one split wide open like a zipper just as the landing gear lever was selected up. Student under instruction in left seat thought we had lost an engine on that side and reached up to feather No 2. Managed to stop him in time. The loss of lift was serious bad news requiring around three-quarters of full wheel deflection to fly around the circuit and land. Ran out of aileron during the float but touched down in time.

Flat tyre on touch down on another occasion at Townsville. Gently swung off the runway with full opposite rudder and brake.

Landing Essendon 35 in gusty crosswind northerly. Geriatric captain as PNF then reached down as soon as wheels kissed runway and engaged autopilot "to help stop rudder from thrashing in strong wind" he says. Damned near lost control as the leg force needed to operate rudder with autopilot engaged is beyond a joke. Landing gear warning horn sounded as gear took the sideways strain as self tried to hold centre line with little success.

RAAF CFS instructor in strife at East Sale. Feathered one engine for practice at cruise. Pulled the firewall shutoff valve as part of drill. Bad thing to do as it turned out. Did a few turns and after re-setting the fire wall shut off valve he unfeathered prop. After engine warmed up at zero thrust or whatever, he throttled back the other engine and decided to practice a single engine go-around at altitude around 2000 ft. He applied METO power on just warmed up engine and a few seconds later the prop flew off the engine and sawed its way up the fuselage and cut the fire bottle in half situated immediately behind the copilot's seat.

Copilot understandably not impressed but had a splended viw of the outside world through gaping crack in fuselage. Prop fell into a field. The prop sliced through various hydraulic lines and other wires and tubes cutting info to temps and pressures gauges of live engine. Mayday declared and aircraft landed safely sans brakes etc. Reason why prop broke off was because re-setting fire wall shut off valve does not fully reset the oil shut off line and so the engine was steadily starved of oil. OK at warm up revs but disaster at high power causing engine to seize up and throw the prop. Memo for pilots: Do not pull firewall shut off valve if practicing feathering....

As I said earlier, nice aircraft the DC3 but it can bite sometimes...

One more. Just remembered. Windscreen wipers hydraulically operated using knob in cockpit near windscreen. Bad leak under pressure squirted hot hydraulic fluid over pilot very close to eyes. Another one but not me. RAAF School of Air Navigation East Sale was the venue for this one. The main landing gear hydraulic lines required I think 650 PSI with gear down. Two gauges on right side of cockpit - one with main system hydraulic pressure and the next gauge to it was landing gear down line pressure. On the ground the landing gear lever was set to neutral and the safety latch was locked in down. To retract the gear you had to first unlatch the small safety lever which was on the floor then you selected the real big lever to up for retraction. Once gear up and locked the main landing gear lever was set to neutral which is half way between up and down like a 737 gear lever

Often the landing gear hydraulic down line would show an excess of pressure up near 900 psi and to relieve the pressure back to 650 psi, the technique required the copilot to select the landing gear lever to down and then back to neutral. This was SOP on the ground. The captain at East Sale was conducting a high power run up on one engine.

He noticed the creeping up high pressure on the landing gear hydraulic gauge and said to his copilot "dump the pressure." Unfortunately in the spur of the moment the copilot raised the landing gear lever (safety catch was undone) to dump the pressure (the technique used when airborne not on the deck) and the gear retracted. The high revving prop hit the deck and cartwheeled over the tarmac scattering some airmen. No one hurt.

I dunno Wombat...do I get the guernsey of youngest current Dak pilot at 25?? :)

The DC-3 is magic, pure and simple. I've always loved old aeroplanes, and while my version of getting to fly one isn't perhaps the traditional path, (!) its been worth every minute.

She was my first airliner, and aside from 4 hours in a CAP10, my first tailwheel aeroplane...

Taxiing can be an experience...the tailwheel lock is the greatest invention ever! I took a little bit of getting used to the idea, pull the lock out, start the turn, drop the lock handle back in (with that bang as the spring drives it home under the pedestal) and manage the turn so in theory as you straighten out, the lock drops back into the wheel and you're in the middle of the taxiway or runway...that's the theory!

I had very little experience at endorsement time, and our training Captain was absolutely brilliant - both Dad and I agree there couldn't be a better guy to have trained us. After mucking taxiing up for the second day in a row, Keith kicked Dad out and we then proceeded to spend the best part of an hour taxiing around on the grass at Wigram, where I was not to touch the brakes, but taxi using only the tailwheel lock and power...brakes were a luxury and besides "use them too much and the flighty will spill the pre-takeoff champagne..." It worked but!

Starting her up is a finely orchestrated thing and a thing of beauty when you get it right! Any turbine driver watching a start from inside usually looks on in a state of shock! No boost pumps on CWS, so using the wobble pump is the order of the day. Two fingers of the right hand to the starter and booster, one finger on the left hand to the primer. Magneto master is already on as part of the prestart. Turn the engine on the starter while counting 9 blades, left hand flicking the primer (well, for the left engine...the right engine is a bit more moody and needs the primer held on a bit more...each side has its own personality!). Turn on the mags after 9 blades with the left hand, while the second finger on the right hand selects the booster...back to the primer and by then a cylinder or two should hopefully be starting to fire...play the dance with the primer, trying to find the balance of too much or too little...call the mixture into auto-rich and watch the tacho like a hawk to make sure you don't go above 1000RPM before the oil temperature is above 40 degrees...check the gauges, everything works...and then do it all again!

There is nothing more satisfying than both engines starting nicely, first go...its always a little embarassing if there wasn't quite enough primer and it runs down to a stop...trying to catch it on the primer can lead to a nice bang as it backfires and that's what you do your best to try and avoid...!

Someone sitting in the jumpseat on a flight made the comment afterwards that both of us during the takeoff roll sport massive grins right about the time the tail comes up - and its true. The noise is like nothing else you've heard, all 48 inches of manifold pressure blasting away. She sits up on the mains and its right about then that you feel her start to twitch through the yoke...she's done this before and is ready to do it again - she just loves to fly. Its about then that you get the idiotic grin. :}

I never realised that a machine could have such an individual personality, but the DC-3 is a prime example of that. It feels almost inappropriate to refer to a DC-3 as "it" - its generally always "her" and you find yourself talking to her as you fly.

And my favorite thing? I sit and watch out of the window and that wing and engine, prop whirling away, and the reflection of the nose in the prop dome and think of how many countless pilots have sat in that same seat, and stared out at that same sight. She's been flying just short of 60,000 hours - imagine where she's been, what she's done, who and what she's carried? Some of the conversation's she's heard, what she's done to scare people...the list goes on. It's just awesome to be flying a piece of living history, and to be able to contribute to that history.

I could ramble for a while about it...! :ok:

Yep I did most of the scenic flying at Wanaka last year... Even got my landings right at that place.... (there is something about it :O)

Sure they can bite, but what tailwheel wont if you push it...

I have been lucky to do a Harvard rating recently and it's the perfect combination between the Citabria and the DC3... an aerobatic Radial!

Thanks for the photo comments, and I'm glad I'm not the youngest although I must be the youngest Capt in NZ at least....!

Life is a funny thing off pilots cse if I got posted to DC3's my world would have been over :uhoh: :uhoh:... now I have paid for the privilege!... and I love it :}

BTW I have recently been lucky to fly the only Miles Messenger flying in NZ and here are a few pictures of an air to air from the other day. (Pictures were taken by Gavin Conroy)

Picasa Web Albums - Andrew - Messenger

Keep it coming!
 

Thanks to all contributors. This thread has made marvelous reading so far. I hope other pilots will share their memories and insights re this iconic aircraft.

I hope we continue to see these lovely old ladies fly. The skills required to fly them well must bring a deep feeling of satisfaction and enjoyment to pilots.

Skyways, thanks for your contribution. From your other thread I can sense your deep satisfaction at being a part of aviation history today. Your reflection about the obstacles you faced are a sad reflection on the inept nature of aviation regulation and control.

Keep the contributions coming.

Mile Messenger.
 

Wombat. Those air to air pics are great. What a lovely aircraft. Are those markings RNZAF? Looks like an air force trainer with those high vis stripes.

Gypsy major engine I assume. Strange set up with flaps extending behind the level of the ailerons. Is it aerobatic? What does it cruise at?

Thanks.

To add to A375's accounts of things that go wrong.

On one approach into a very short strip, as the F/O selected full flap it went asymmetric, with one side blowing full up as the other ran full down. The roll was interesting to say the least. Lucky I subscribe to the school of basic test flying that says when something goes wrong with an action, reverse the action if you have nothing to lose by doing so. In this case the F/O acted on my 'flaps up' call with alacrity and we got it level in time for a go-around to a flapless landing. The cause was a sheared actuater rod from the hydraulic cylinder to the flap linkage.
On another occasion the pipe that fed one of the hydraulic gauges on the F/O's sidewall burst and sprayed a fine mist of hot hydraulic fluid all over the cockpit. We got the gear down just as it ran out of fluid and landed in a very red, sticky mess. White uniform shirts were a total write-off.
As for the youngest DC3 pilot, I am sure that some military jocks would beat my record, but at the time I was an F/O at 21 and went left seat at 24. Flew it on and off with various companies over a 20 year period - interspersed with other types along the way. But everywhere I went, it seemed they had a couple of old WW 2 Daks that no one else in the company wanted to fly because of the whiz-bang turbo-props. Given the choice, I always opted for the Dak as I knew its time was running out. The turbo props would always be there for later.
Sad to see that some civil aviation authorities are legislating it out of existence. IMHO, even though it does not meet modern certification standards, it's nowhere near as unsafe as say, a Piper Chieftain or any similar light twin which is still legal to carry fare-paying passengers. At least it has firewall shutoffs and fire bottles etc and even a non-de-iced one will tolerate a light dusting of ice on the wings.

Flyin' the Dak
 

Forty gallons per hour each engine ... Watching the refueller’s counter scream past the thousand litres is scary these days, specially when the fuel is say $2.40 per liter at some out of the way place.
I did my endorsement in New Guinea forty years ago.
2hrs.05 the first day. 25 minutes day and 1.00 night the next day and then I was put with the company’s most hopeless dangerous captain for my first revenue flight… no training … just off and at ‘em. Still didn’t have my uniform either.

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The first thing you notice after climbing up the “integral steps” is the hill you have to climb followed closely by “the DC-3 smell”.
Stick ya head in a Tiger Moth cockpit and you smell the same one every pilot has smelt in every Tiger… same with DC-3s, 4s, Chipmunks… they have their own individual smell.
The old girl’s is a combination of hydraulic oil, fuel, paint primer, radios and whatall.
If she’s a passenger job you climb up the hill to the cockpit with your nav bag held uncomfortably out in front of you as your legs tend to brush against the arm rests. If she’s a freighter you clunk up the scarred ply wood floor. The pax windows are SO low. All you can see is wings and grass.

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As you go through the cockpit door you’re still about eight feet from the pilot seats, because you have the hallway of cargo bins, topped by radio rack on the right and a conglomeration of wonderful “junk’ storage on the left. Things like maintenance release book, manual, fire extinguisher and things that have nowhere else to go.
You pass the tiny cargo door alcove on the left that is at floor level . There’s a knotted white cotton escape rope coiled above it and boy, you hurt yourself as you struggle over the lip attempting to go hand over hand down it with some sort of dignity ( I never managed it without skinned knuckles, burnt hands and jolted knees of ankles… why would I bother…. Only way out when the belly’s full of bloody big agitated bulls that are using their horns with gusto to try and get out of the temporary enclosures)


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Across from that cargo door there’s the hydraulic tank and plumbing by your shoulder on the right just before you struggle into the cockpit.

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For a great big plane, the cockpit is cramped … perhaps ten inches wider than a Cessna 172 cockpit.
If you’re a romantic you look at those leather covered, chipped paint seats and spare a thought for the hundreds of thousands of the “crusty old and bold” and sprogs like yourself who’ve settled their bums in them before you.
Sink into the co-pilot’s seat… fumble for the seat lock and find a position that’s comfy… she only slides for and aft less than a foot, unlike a jet seat that goes for miles up, down and sideways as well.
You note the whopping big hydraulic gauges beside you and reckon there must be half a pint of oil in each of ‘em… “why are they so BIG?”
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Lots of nobs … a dirty great cluster of pretty ones on the throttle pedestal ... Black throttles, white pitch, red mixture, black or blue carby heat… there’s hydraulic windscreen wiper nobs, and ones for locking the tiny
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side windscreen window… “When would you ever open THAT? Gunna have a one fifty knot gale blasting ya mug if ya opened that window”. (Did once or twice to blow the overpowering stink of dozens of sweaty, trussed up, petrified pigs, down the back and on another occasion two bales of dried fish that Indo army blokes were using as a seat on an hour’s flight up to their mountain base. They regarded it as food, WE wouldn’t have used it as fertilizer unless we wanted to upset an enemy. Needed to wear the sunglasses to stop the tears blinding us those flights.
Look out the windows… “****! We’re so high up”.
Last time I sat in the left hand seat of CWS to take some photos, I looked down onto a Beech 18 parked beside us. It looked tiny, yet as I’d walked around it a while before I’d thought, “You’re a pretty big aeroplane”.
At that same time I settled in that seat I got itchy eyes thinking, “My old man sat in this chair almost fifty six years ago to the day” he’d been doin’ a quick test flight after she’d come out of maintenance. He’s dead now …poor bugger. There’s four of us who’ve sat in that very seat, all with the same sir name (share a couple of ancestors) … two sets of father and son endorsed on 3’s.
Endorsement flights for my first airline were passed on by word of mouth to the flying community and all the pilots and a number of engineers would head for the aero club, pull chairs out onto the eastern side of the club house in the shade and settle down with their green or brown bottles of cheer and await the fun.
The aero club was not far from the end of the runway.
An old lady would come waddling out along the taxiway and sit for a while at the holding point.
Finally she’d line up and away she’d go heading for Bootless Bay pretty normally.
Downwind would be uneventful, final …nearly so, but late final things would get excitin’ as sprog got tenser and started over correcting.
Sprog was overwhelmed with the size of the brute and was fearful of drivin’ her in, so tentatively started rounding out at about a hundred feet.
All sorts of aerobatics started then. Crowd loved it.
Often she’d fall graciously to the ground and the tailwheel would come crashing down. Plenty of speed still, she’d sail up into the air and get a good push and bam down again only to bounce way up again and again.
Luckily, the trainee didn’t know about the audience and didn’t have another trainee observing. He was feeling that he was there by false pretences and wasn’t much of a pilot at that time… he certainly didn’t need someone else sitting in judgement with the same ideas rolling around in his head too.
When I did that endorsement, there were five of us who joined the company as DC-3 first officers in a month.
The aeroclub’s profits were memorable that month.
There’s lots of places for water to get in as mentioned before. And it all drips on you.
Even if you never touched the emergency hatch in the cockpit roof and let the tropical sun weld the rubber seal to the frame water still got in. Small aforementioned storm window managed to allow some to get through and make it’s way along the bottom slide channelling to drip into the dash and your knees.
Back in the olden days when radios were the size of a beer carton, they lived in the radio rack behind the F.O. (Great place to stick ya cold hands in on a long flight) now these beaut little transistorised ones live in the dash and that dripping water alarms pilots who spend time with absorbent paper trying to avoid usin’ 7600 … IF the transponder doesn’t get swamped.
We had large “contact” covered WAC charts in the ship’s bag. They covered all of PNG and were used as raincoats and rugs over our knees… don’t think there were garbage bags then.
I always thanked my lucky stars I was in the tropics… spared a thought for the poor buggers down in Victoria and Tassie in the middle of the night sufferin’ from soaked daks.
Oh there’s much more , but who’ll read it?


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Once upon a time a giant all metal airliner appeared.

I would spend a large amount of money, time and effort to be endorsed in the Dak, for no other reason than to have that grand old lady in my log book and to have flown her. there aircraft we all want to fly when we were kids, and the Dak was one of mine. I have been fortunate enough to manage to fly all the aircraft on my wish list except the Dak, and it seems if I don't hurry I may miss out. It will be a sad day when this grand old lady doesn't grace our skys any longer. :(

I remember from the right seat:

Friggin carby heat control I could never get right.

Landing gear hydraulics that sounded like bagpipes.

Waste paper disposal unit... open window and allow slipstream to remove papers.

Raincoat over the lap when flying in rain as the old suckers leaked like a sieve.

No pressurisation. Start descent early if you want eardrums intact.

Spark plug changes after descent if you closed throttles completely,as the whole lot oiled up. Pissed the engineers off.

Geez jets are so much easier to fly.

best thread in a long time!

For all those who have flown her, especially in the old days - please keep the stories coming... You needn't be afraid of boring us :ok:

Having a surf this morning, watched her (CWS) cruise up and down the coast.....

Magical...................

Such a bloody shame :(

Open the window son.
 

Yeah the sliding window, what a beauty.
You could lean right out and wave to the girlfriend in flight … best on short final when she could clearly see you. Also great to lean out as you passed over war wreckage near aerodromes and try and get good photos.
Wasn't any good for clearing the cockpit of bloody cigarette smoke. It all streamed out past your nose.
I hated flying with Bloody old Captain Trembles... he lit the next one from the last.... there was no way of escaping the stink.
One FO used to torment Captain Drama by doing his AIP amendments while flying along. He'd open the window for each superseded page’s disposal, flick it forward from between pointer and big finger and it’d go fffuppp as it suddenly changed direction and shot out. He’d then slam the window shut.
Each time it shut, there’d be a sudden change in pressure in the cockpit, which painfully stabbed Drama’s ear drum, so he flinched. He wouldn't admit it... old soldier!
The senior F.Os could do things like this to get the old bugger back for his definite WW2 bomber pilot attitude to ham fisted, totally useless F.Os who were only good for hanging onto her in the cruise (No auto pilot). We junior blokes just accepted the crap he heaped on us, because if you could stuff up, it would happen with Drama and prove him right.
I was recently told a story by a retired captain at a reunion. Like a bloody dill I didn’t write his name down… “I’ll remember, no problem … then I had lots more rums.
Waaay back when he was a junior F.O. he was flying along out west and made a number of mistakes on the flight plan, so it was looking pretty bad with overwriting and crossing out.
TAA made the crew pin ALL the paperwork together at the end of the day… plans manifests, progressive load summaries, that started off with a zero and had to end with a zero.
It had all the loads (mail, pax, baggage, cargo,) uplifted and dropped off at each of the ports for the day, entered in the hundreds of boxes and columns.
"The boy" told the Captain he was worried about what would be said about the flight plan when it was examined.
Crusty Capt. (obviously a good bloke) said, “Showus”
Examined it and reckoned it was a bit of a disgrace, so opened his window and … oh dear! … then, resignedly shut the window.
Young bloke sang his praises from them on.
Some months later, Senior Route Captain (Later known as “The abominable NO man) … my old man… saw sprog passing by in the traffic office and said, “I want to see you in my office”.
“****! What have I done now” thinks one thin bar wearer.
The old man pulls a government envelope from his desk and empties the much creased but straightened, somewhat faded document on the desk and with THAT look asked, “What’s the meaning of this?”
Some ringer, riding by weeks after the accident, saw a paper on the ground and not being used to litter, dismounted and retrieved it.
Seeing that it was an important looking manuscript he felt it better be handed in to the authorities, so folded it and bunged it in his buttoned shirt pocket where it'd be safe.
Next time he was in town he visited the police station.
Cop agreed that it must be important and posted it off to TAA.
At the time of being told this tale I had recently been in the Commonwealth Archives, sorting through the five inch thick file that was the records of investigation of my old man’s, older brother’s, fatal Guinea Airways Lockheed 14 crash south of Darwin during the war.
Because it was a war crash and more so, because it was a magnificent documentation of buck passing, inter service rivalry and a chain of easily avoided links that ended in ten Yank communications blokes’ and two Aussie pilot’s deaths, it had been hidden away for sixty years.
I knew the old man had done some of the searching for the aircraft on his daily Adelaide Darwin trips (Took six weeks to find the wreckage … and that was only after as bush fire)
Amongst the many papers was a very incomplete, not very tidy radio log that looked suspiciously like the old man’s writing.
Boxes to have crew names weren’t filled in, sloppy writing, not staying inside the boxes… a terrible effort. (Something to do with the between 12 and sometimes 24 hour flight times in his logbook)
It DID have the date and rego so I photographed it … just in case.
Yes, on checking his logbook, the old man had been the FO on that flight.
Wanted to email a copy to the “teller of the tale” to show him the boss was once a sprog and not perfect, but can’t remember his name.
Often pilots tossed the food they didn’t like in their lunch box, out the window.
Same old salad, made at 5 AM got nice and warm by lunchtime. Tomato got to taste like asparagus, cheese sweated oil. Something green wilted in the bottom. Ham … yuk! Cake and crackers were OK … individually packaged.
Often sad asparagus or tomato would slide down the outside of the aircraft because it was so limp and wet. Difficult to chuck limp stuff hard… tends to disintegrate and coat the inside of the cockpit. Embarrasing to explain that to engineering
I had an apple once that I didn’t want.
Tried chucking it with considerable force and see if it’d get chopped by the prop.
Missed the prop and sailed into the engine nacelle where it bounced about for the rest of the flight. Props only go at 1050 RPM
Went quiet for a while. Do I fess up to the Capt. Could it dry out and become a fire hazard.
I kept an eye on it and it danced about happily for the rest of the flight.
Engineers found it or maybe one of the Bois who’d have eaten it. Never heard any mention of it afterwards.
Should have saved it for ammo and chucked it at the dear little black kids who hurled rocks and sticks at us as we passed close by on final.
Little black boys weren’t the only ones who tried assaulting aeroplanes on final.
Had a school mate who told me they used to make pipe canons with thripenny bungers and a marble and tried denting the underside of planes. They lived near Essendon and would ride their bikes out and ask the engineers if they could go and look at the planes parked away from the tarmac.
They know the rego of targets they’d shot at and examine them very carefully.
Haven’t times changed.
Pressurisation and computers, refrigeration … more comfortable but… Boring!

Jack Curtis gave me a marvellous piece of DC-3 advice the first day I flew with him...wandering down finals with me flying at about 600 feet with a healthy crosswind, he cleared his throat, looked across at me and said "right lad, just remember, your feet aren't just there for dancing..."

For some reason I found Jack telling me this hysterically funny - and my crosswind technique improved out of sight!!

A37575 mentions the saftey latch being unlocked and splatt, aeroplane on her guts.
I know that people take off with the (safety) latch unlocked today and haven't heard a good reason why!
The latch is to stop her gutsing herself if the gear lever is inadvertently raised.
We unlocked it on the gear up command and if the time it takes to unllock and unlatch is the reason, I don't agree. It is a pretty swift manoeuvre and the loss of acceleration for the second or so it takes is negligible.
Certainly more aeroplanes have come to grief from bypassing this safety feature than crashed on takeoff after losing an engine.
Maybe if Jack is reading this HE can explain.
For the uninitiated there is a small lever on the cockpit floor between the pilot's seats, that is stowed down flush when the gear is down and locked.
It is attached by cables to a "spade " in the gear linkage that mechanically jams the gear in the down position.
To raise the gear, the latch has to be first raised, pulling the spade clear so the hydraulic rams can raise the gear when the gear lever (Hydraulic) is moved to "UP".
There is a further safety feature called the lever latch lock? It is a small semi circular collar that can be moved through ninety degrees to park over the end of the latch handle so you can't pull the handle on the floor up.
You flick it forward so it falls in front of the handle on the floor, then you can raise the lock handle and follow up by pulling the hydraulic handle (at elbow level when you're sitting to raise the gear.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...leverlatch.jpg

In PNG one airline (TAA) always set the gear to the 'spring lock' position for take-off. But then, they also had some aircraft with JATO bottles. Just what advantage any of this would have been on some of the strips if an engine quit at 60 or 70 knots, I dunno....maybe the choice was to drop it on its guts to stop, or fire the JATO and hope to go?

In my early days as Captain on the Gooney I pulled a little stunt that got me into a spot of trouble. One dark winter's night we were returning from the Shetland Islands with no pax on board. The hostie was a ditzy blonde, sitting down the back reading a Mills & Boon. I told the F/O to get out of his seat and hide in the forward cargo locker. Then, with autopilot on, dimmed the red lights to minimum with the U/V lights (which the Poms favoured) up just enough for a ghostly blue glow. Slid both cockpit windows full open, pressed the hostie call buzzer and bailed out of my seat into the locker next to the F/O. Up comes hostie to take our coffee orders. Sees the empty cockpit, hears wind howling around the open windows and of course assumes the worst.
About the time she had subsided to the floor in a sobbing heap, we set her off again by simultaneously leaping out of the locker with a loud BOO.
Next day I got a big lecture from the chief pilot about the rule that said 'one pilot must always be at the controls blah blah' followed by an acknowledgement that it was pretty bloody funny, but I was never to do it again. Imagine doing something like that in today's PC world.

That is a complete no-no as the strain on the tail-wheel locking system is significant. The tail wheel lock was specifically designed for the take off and landing run where in theory the aircraft runs straight. Being taught not to touch the brakes amazes me How do you pull up otherwise? - if you are taxiing using differential power and tail wheel lock all you are going to do besides eventually stuffing the tail wheel lock is to pick up more speed!:(

Patair had Jato on VH-PNA
The word was you got 400 feet of climb out of them if you had an engine failure at 81K. They only used them at one strip when I flew 'em and only the captains got to use 'em in practise when they ran out of life.
I can see some sense in boppin' her on her guts in the kunai in PNG rather than bopping big trees... She would only have the brakes and deceleration of the props dragging till she hit the long grass tho.
Why would you kiss off a safety feature in OZ these days?

Remember Forrest Air at Essendon. Les Morris was chief pilot for a while and he and I flew freight to Tassie. The friction nut was u/s and you definately needed a friction nut as both throttles would quickly slide backwards (always unevenly, too) if you took your hands off them for a moment. Les brought a length of rope and wound it around the throttles to act as a friction nut.

The storm windows were invaluable in heavy rain which blotted out all forward vision. Sure you got wet but at least you could see outside after you opened the storm windows by sliding them on rails. You can do the same on the 737 providing you depressurise first and open the sliding window. Very handy fall back trick if fuel getting low and you can't divert.

I noticed the magneto switch assembly on one of those photos. The Master ignition on/off switch was there in case of crash landing or ditching. It was a similar switch in the RAAF Museum Ventura that lost both engines in the circuit at Richmond, that had an internal short and cut out both mags on both engines without the pilots being aware of it until the engines stopped..

The RAAF did the same thing. The reason being if a late abort occured with no hope of pulling up within the aerodrome boundary, it was a simple matter to pull up the latching lever and then select gear up. If however the latching lever was locked down then it took some effort while looking down on the floor, to lift the locking ring, pull up the safety latch then go for the main undercarriage lever. Interestingly, RAF Pilot's Notes for Dakota 1V at page 25 Check List before Take off requires the undercarriage latch lever to be set at Positive Lock (safety clip engaged).

We had one pilot who manufactured a telescopic device like transistor radio aerial with a rubber grommet at the tip and with this he could adjust the Sperry Gyropilot pitch and rudder knobs on the instrument panel without ever having to lean forward. He just whipped out this telescopic aerial thingie from his shirt pocket and ever so casually twiddled the gyropilot knobs with great aplomb. I suspect the term "real cool dude" started then.

The only time I have been in a Dak was as a passenger...I'd been to the UK to a big party the day after my first solo, and ended up busting my ankle after way too much celebrating in high heels.

Anyhow, I had to get home to Jersey next day and went on the Air Atlantique DC3 (I think it was G-AMRA) flight from Exeter as a "non-ambulatory pax". I remember how hard the poor hostie had to work pushing me in the wheelchair up that slope so I could look inside the cockpit! Disembarking was a lot easier. Wheeee! That's a steep slope! :)

Meanwhile one of the DC3s here in Aus has my name as a callsign....have been told if I want the rego I have to buy the whole aircraft. Anyone wanna share?

no way............ your old man is way to big.:E

not taught not to use the brakes, quite the contrary - just to learn not to rely on the brakes to do all of the steering...they tend to fade as they warm up...

It is witticisms like this that make it so easy to be a Pprune addict..loved it.

I was serious. he's a big guy and highly trained in people harming. :}:ok:

Great thread. Keep the stories coming. Been in the Dak bout 80 times myself but only landed in one twice, about 50 years ago.

The Poms were great destroyers of DC3 engines. Their CAA had this ridiculous requirement for an annual C of A air test. Basically, it involved loading the old girl up with fuel and ballast, blasting off with a sprog co-pilot who had a stopwatch and all the forms to fill out. It didn't matter if it was solid IMC, the test had to be done on the appointed due day; otherwise the aeroplane - already then some 35 years old - would suddenly become unairworthy. Fortunately, it was easier to fly accurately in fog, and the cool conditions probably helped a bit to save the engines from instant destruction.

After logging temps and pressures during takeoff (when CHTs are in a constant state of change, so what they did with this information, I dunno) and time for the gear to retract, we got down to the seriously engine-damaging stuff. The critical engine was feathered (time taken to feather was recorded) and the other one set at max takeoff power - the whole 48 inches - and the climb rate at 86 knots was measured over 5 minutes (or it may have only been 3 minutes, but it felt like forever). Then that engine was unfeathered (timed with stopwatch of course) and the other engine, having been flogged half to death, was then feathered (timed of course) and the first engine then run at METO power for some interminable time like 5 or 10 minutes while the climb continued to be measured; this time at the magic number of 91 knots. When that was over, the by now snap-frozen engine was re-started and we carried out various configuration stalls while timing flap extension times and recording onset of buffet and final stall speeds. We may have even measured VMCA - I can't remember if it was on the test form. We certainly did that one during endorsement training.

The other gross injustice to the old girl was meat-bombing. Most summer weekends we would rip the seats out and 30 parachute-equipped peanuts would sit on the floor while we climbed as quickly as possible to 12,000 feet, then they'd all leap out in waves of 6 or so. While they were floating down holding hands like they were in some kind of love-fest, we had to get the DC3 back on the ground as quickly as possible to pick up the next mob of nutters; to do it all over again.

Although I was always as sympathetic as possible to the engines by cooling them slowly and warming them up again, and I am sure others were also, we always seemed to have a failure within weeks of such silly games. I had two engine failures with this company and I know that there were many more. As a result the company dumped the DC3 as 'uneconomic' when in fact it should have been unbeatable for some shorter routes.

How about 48. Both cargo doors removed. Two groups of 24 each. These guys would stand up facing the exit in 4 rows of 6 abreast. ie a bunch of 24. On their signal, the first group of 24 all run towards the exit and they are gone. At this time the next 24, move down the back and immediately repeat what the first group did.
Talk about a pitch change :ok:

Lucky enough to fly as pax in Air Atlantique G-AMPZ several times after having tried several times in 1980's and 90's to grab a pax ride in one in both Australia and NZ. Always remember an Air North DC3 looking lost amongst the 747's at Kingsford Smith when I first arrived in Australia in 1985 and one on poles at Tullamarine as I left.

My father spent many years flying them around Europe after the war and would always tell great tales of just how wet it was in the rain and how he would spend hours watching St Elmo's Fire racing round the windshield. Days when he had to either go around or through the Alps and/or Pyrennes depending on the weather. Even in those post war days when flying was not yet for the great unwashed he had troubles with passengers who had had too much alcoholic refreshment from the trolley. His solution. Climb higher and let the lack of oxygen take its effect. Worked like a treat.