Geoff Thomas "Aviation Expert" on Sunrise
 

For those that caught it at 7:07am on Sunrise today on Channel 7 you'd know about this.

I was most disappointed to hear Geoff's comments regarding the Bankstown incident.

A couple of comments I noted:

Geoff stated words to the effect of the fact that a 89 year old instructor was at the controls should be reviewed. Whilst he said that this was likely not a contributing factor he did say that consideration should be given to the maximum age.

Geoff also stated words to the effect that pilots often turn down their radios so they don't have to listen to them and that they don't follow instructions given.

He also stated words to the effect that it is common aviation practice for pilots to not make radio calls so as to avoid airways charges.

Of course this prompted the Sunrise presenter to suggest that a full enquiry be held into aviation.

Most disappointing comments from an awarded journalist or from anyone for that matter representing aviation.

He doesn't represent aviation, he represents himself.

From the Aus Aviation Bio page.

Geoffrey Thomas
Contributing Writer

Geoffrey Thomas has been commentating on the airline industry for 25 years and as well as writing for Australian Aviation is the Senior Editor with US based Air Transport World.

Geoff first became engrossed in the industry as a young child, when his uncle who was a chief engineer with Trans Australian Airlines allowed him to scramble over DC-6Bs and Viscounts.

Some awards have come his way and Geoff was named Aerospace Journalist of the Year in the Best Systems and Technology category for 2002 and 2003 and he won Australasian Aviation Journalist of the Year awards for 2001 and 2002 and was runner-up in 2003. In all Geoff has won 17 international and Australasian awards. Geoff has also featured in a number of TV investigative documentaries and is a regular commentator on Australian TV and radio.

A low point was missing a flight in the Concorde because it clashed with his son Nick’s fifth birthday but a highlight was taking part in Boeing’s 777-200LR record setting world distance flight late last year.

Sounds like professional SLF:8

Strong words there guys...

Geoff has a presence here on PPrune...I hope you've addressed your concerns with him directly too!

I've seen him on tv before, and I have to say he's a lot better in print. He does seem to go the sensationalist angle when on tv. While I don't always agree with what he has to say, at least in print he can explain it in more detail. On telly they don't worry too much about details, just go for the sound bite.

I posted with my individual thoughts as I am entitled to do to FA18 and I chose not to contact him directly - just to make that clear.

It was disappointing that he seemed to use the Sunrise segment to promote agenda that was unrelated to the incident yesterday.

The last thing the general public wants is to know or think that they know is that that pilots fly around up there with their radios off ignoring instructions from Air Traffic Control. Where is the evidence of this? I've never heard of this before. I've heard of radios being turned down whilst out and about, but never to ignore instructions.

As for failing to make radio calls so as to avoid airways charges, completely irrelevant for Bankstown and aside from some hear-say, probably completely irrelevant.

Combine these self confessed "experts" (anyone see the moron on Channel 9 last night) with scaremongering from celebrities (cough, cough you know who you are) and you end up with a tragic accident becoming the biggest disaster in Australian history. Everyone trying to pin blame on the 89 year old pilot-go eat yourselves. This pilot is by FAR the greatest pilot in Australia, and to suggest age means he in inept is to be prejudiced without reason!

Why is everyone a fecking expert every time we have a mid-air?

Un-be-fecking-leavable :mad:

"Geoffrey Thomas".

Nowhere in the above "bio" is there any indication of 'relevant aviation qualifications" on which he can claim expert status.

I have been flying now for over 40 years and am nowhere near any 'expert' status, competent yes, but expert, not yet.

I know Thomas appears here on PPRuNe now and then and I can't remember any valid contribution made to our industry by that presence.

There are comments flying in every direction after the most recent mid-air, none of which will contribute to the potential resolution of this on-going aviation problem that has exsisted now for over 100 years.

:=

Who pays Mr Thomas?
and is there a vested interest somewhere for his inappropriate remarks?

EDIT- I am falling for the trap.

The guy is no expert on procedural matters. If he was he would know that what he said was way out of left field.

Age, radio useage, avoiding charges? What has any of this got to do with a simple incident...a very tragic incident...but a simple incident just the same. If this was reduced to laymans terms, it was a "fail to give way" accident!

One wonders if Sunrise "shopped" around to get the type of comment that best suited their intentions

Didn't see the interview myself or making any excuses for the bloke in question but are you sure the interview was not edited to fit in to a certain time slot and ofcourse to sensationalise the story. Is it possible he spoke of a number of issues one of which being the practice of some at country airports to not make a call to avoid fees or IFR charter flights in high performance aircraft going VFR when able to avoid fees etc?
Most of these interviews are pre recorded the day before or hours earlier you know, especially breakfast programs.

FYI - The interview was portrayed as LIVE and UN-EDITED and it appeared in every aspect to be live.


It was asked during the interview whether or not an instructor could be 100 years old to which the aviation expert replied that it was possible but unlikely to happen.

I hope for Geoff's sake that Ken Andrews is still flying at 100 ! Good on you Ken for making it home safely and brilliant that you are still flying at your age.

The age / medical debate is irrelevant in this case if it was in fact a PPL flight test.

Back to topic though sorry.

As an aside, just watched the SkyNews report on the accident. Ken's age has been dismissed as a factor. He has to pass his stringent class 1 every six months.

Everything else that has surfaced as comment got reported on. I particularly like the bit about most of the comment is coming from one aviator, Dick Smith.

The family in the house were not even home. They were out getting photoes and returned to find the aircraft in their backyard.

The investigation will look into the practices of the two schools. Hope this doesn't turn into a witch hunt.

tinhorse
 

Flying into Bankstown in a slower type single has alwys made me aprehensive - I have no way of avoiding a faster aircraft approaching from behind. A few years ago I flew into Oshkosh in a Bonanza, and the procedure was just so simple and safe. The reporting point was a small town called Ripon - about 20 miles from Oshkosh. From there all aircraft were at the same altitude, and spaced line astern - speed for all was 80 MPH. Considering the sheer volume of traffic, the result was amazingly simple and hassle free. Twin engine aircraft were given a higher altitude and airspeed. Any thoughts out there on this system?

I have known Ken since I first started flying nearly 7 years ago and in that time he has conducted most of my flight tests and when I was instructing he tested many of my students over the years. I have nothing but the highest respect for that man...he has taught me and many more of us who have been privileged enough to fly with him more than what anyone could ever imagine. I find it so heartbreaking that narrow minded, ignorant lowlifes who know NOTHING about him and/or the aviation industry can come out and blame Ken because of his age. This accident could've happened to any of us at ANY age!

I hope this tragedy doesn't stop Ken from taking to the skies again. Love your work!

My thoughts and prayers go out to all that were involved. It's a very sad moment in aviation :(

:D
Not a Pilot? Another good reason not to read that magazine.

His points were not really relevant, but simply being on Sunrise and being called an expert by Mel and Kochy gives instant Credability. The public take notice and don't know any better.
I just saw Dick Smith on the morning news (Ch 10 I think). Love him or loath him at least he has an inside perspective and significant aeronautical experience.

The gent (and his sons) who was first on the scene was most professional. He was also a pilot. He saw the aircraft come down, approached the crash site, assessed the site and noted spilled avgas, warned his sons about he avgas and risk and attempted to remove the occupants quickly in case an explosion erupted from the hot engine. Unfortunately he realised that he was unable to help the occupants due to the extent of the impact.

Smart thinking and quick action by the pilot.

That is what should be reported on, not this other tripe.

Perhaps this is why the American magazine "Flying" has been on the top of the aviation magazine dung heap for so many years - the journos are actually experienced pilots!

Dr :8

Well Said VH-XXX.

I was also unimpressed by the comments on Sunrise. I've been to many cattle yards and the biggest heap of bullsh!t I've seen was not in one of them. :E

Well all i can say is "You know what an expert is ....x is an unknown factor ..and a spert comes from something under pressure.....so Geoff must be an unknown factor under pressure.....lol

Let us not fall into the trap of getting 'personal' towards Thomas. It is certainly 'open season' on his qualifications and comments by discussing their validity to the current matter.

You know, the same way contributors to PPRuNe vigorously discuss Dick Smith's ideas without resorting to personal and demeaning abuse.:ok:

I don't know what all the hassle is about. Sunrise and the Today show have about as much credibility as Today Tonight and A Current Affair.

Basically sensationalist, tabloid trash :yuk:

Did Koche have an opinion, after all he his a natural laxative?
Would have been a bit of a squeeze in Channel 7, with Mr Thomas and Mr Smiths ego's ?

Think before submitting!
 

Beached As Brew won't be around for a few days.

Just remember people - Don't write anything slanderous or libellous unless you're prepared to back it up in court.

TID

Personally, I have found the skills and objectivity of the interviewer to be somewhat lacking on a wide range of topics.

I expected, and received, another disappointing few minutes viewing, finalised by a sweeping statement supported by all previous questions (not necessarily the answers) and bearing little resemblance to the relevant issues.

I've been critical of some of Dick's public appearances in the past, but I suspect one of 2 reasons explain why he wasn't interviewed - either he wasn't available, or he didn't have the right opinion.

From what everyone is telling me, Dick was unavailable as he was on Channel 9's morning show.

There's nothing else to call them, as a Professional is merely someone who gets paid to do what they do. Eg. we've all probably been a professional lawnmowist as some stage of our lives, but that doesn't make us an expert.

An Expert (SME - Subject Matter Expert) is either self proclaimed or someone who has been awarded or commended on their contributions. In this case the journalist has been awarded or commended on their contribution to aviation reporting and can rightly-so proport to be an expert and I would agree with that.

I didn't (and it seems that nobody else) agreed to the comments this morning.

Anyone else going to do the x-spurt joke before we wrap it up?:confused:

I did not see the segment but, having worked with Geoffrey on a project previously, I would like to hear his side of the story. However, if the thread continues on as a character assassination, then I wouldn't blame him for ignoring it.

We all bemoan shoddy aviation stories we read, and journos skulking in the threads on fishing expeditions. GT is one of the few that posts under his own name and is accessible to us here on Pprune. It would be a pity to encourage anonymous journo's here.

XXX, agree with that. Just blotted his copybook in this case.

Another big call! What other reasons are there Trojan? :confused:

I certainly regard GT as enough of an "expert" to warrant listening to. I always read his articles in Australian Aviation and have a couple of his books (e.g. "Qantas Flightpaths"). Whenever I encounter an article of his somewhere (e.g a newspaper), I will go out of my way to read it.

I have been a GA pilot for over 20 years and a close follower of the industry, world-wide, for much longer - I have had a subscription to Flight International for about 25 years now.

GT - if you're reading this - keep up the good work. The Qantas Flightpaths book is so good it should be a textbook for just about everybody in aviation.

As for the appearance of a "live" interview: Television stations often will capture a long, sometimes rambling interview with some expert then take out little snippets for play back later. Of course, those snippets need to be given "context" so the TV station will add the interview questions back in, so as to fit the snippets!

And the interviewer, of course, will not be the original interviewer but one of the personalities that is normally on air at that time slot (e.g Koch or Mel). So Mel just reads out the list of questions and the snippets are played back in response.

To the average viewer, it all looks perfectly live.

Enough with the "ooooh! You'll be in trouble"

I'm assuming you're about to lay your cards on the table and declare to all that he's a 50,000 hour pilot who flies the Red Bull Air Race course in a B777 with it's engines shut down and designed the A380 in his spare time.

Do you agree with what he said or not?

:rolleyes:

Firstly, I was querying Tojan's call on the "magazine"...but anyway...

Have met him and he always strikes me as a decent fellow. Don't know his flying background but, as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't matter. I agree with FGD that he's a good commentator worth reading.

I also don't know enough about the GA scene to know whether he's right or not, however I suspect he didn't just pluck his claims out of his arse for the sake of a good sound bite.

G'Day FA18

WRT the magazine, I don't like the articles that read like press releases (with little crititcal analyses), many of the opinions expressed over the years and an apparent pre-occupation with military aviation. All personal opinion, of course.

I do not mean for this to sound like a personal attack. GT has been recognised as a successful aviation journalist and I am sure he is a decent fellow.
However, Bankstown tower was operating at the time and so comments relating to pilots not making radio calls to avoid fees are unhelpful and irrelevant. Viewers who know very little about aviation or GA will be up in arms after hearing speculation like that. Hence D Koche's comment about an inquiry into aviation.

Thanks for the clarification Trojan - I'm mates with AA's main military writer and will gladly pass your feedback on to him.:cool:

Cheers

I have never posted on this forum however being closely assosiated with the events of the last few days I felt I must. The only thing more shocking too us all than loosing our friend and collegue was the disgraceful behavior of the media, the tricks, lies, and harassment of the Family, Ken and the staff of the schools involved has left me with a sour taste in my mouth that will not leave me for a very long time. Its quite ironic that this forum has focussed on the sunrise program as channel 7 were by far the most appaling along with the reporters of the Herald, telegraph and the Australian. I am reluctant to ever buy a paper, or watch the news again, for two reasons, one never to support these animals and two half the crap that was printed or went to air was completely innacurate with zero care for who it affected.
Most of you know, but dont ever believe what you read or hear.
I dont wish the events of the last few days on anyone.

No worries:ok:

Gobstream, good post.

Clearly still hasn't much of a clue what he's talking about.
Typified by a recent "look at me in a 777 sim" where he talks incessantly about altitude in metres rather than what real pilots use in thar area - feet.

Flight recreated in 777 simulator - The West Australian

Sensationalism and claptrap at it's worst.

I caught a clip where he said the malaysian pilots were using non standard phrasologies. Then attempted to demonstrate the correct call and got that terrifically wrong. Aviation expert my foot!