engine failure, how common?
 

Hi all

I've been flying for about eight years without incident, however i've just had my second engine failure in 12 months. 2 different aircraft, 2 different operators, 2 different maintenance organisations. Both times I was able to restart the engine and land safely.

Obviously I dont want to become complacent and think 'it wont happen to me again'. But I am wondering how many engine failures people have in their careers. Am I due for more? or is this it for a while?

Cheers

BF

:hmm::rolleyes:

and a name like BUTTER FINGERS :}

I would suggest you see your local school and LAME about fuel valve management :}

I hope your run of misfortune is able to be circumvented in future!

J:ok:

Just curious ............. but, what sort of engine failure(s) allows you to restart the engine?

Mechanical fuel pump failure?

Dr :8

Three views. Three replies. The previous two should just about cover it.

Three engine failures in 3,500 hours - one a fuel system blockage in a Thruster (two-stroke ultralight deathtrap), one a broken exhaust valve rocker on a Cessna 150, and the last one (hopefully) a perished oil-seal at the back of a TIO-540 on a Cheap-tin.

:ouch:

Moved away from the bottom-end of GA operations after that :}

I have had 3 partials only - in a couple of thousand hours!

1) A run-in with carby icing in a PA28, way back - uneventful restoration of noise
2) Core fell out of a spark-plug in a PA38 and got chewed up in one pot, just after turning X-wind on climbout with a student pilot flying - uneventful return to rwy.
3) Turbocharger on a C402B crapped itself on TO from Rwy 01 YBTL with a full load of punters during the airline pilots strike - big spike in my heart rate and tear-drop turn over water for a return onto Rwy 19 - fire engines and the whole deal!

I have just clocked 600 hrs in the FTDK - 88,000 nm = 4 x round the world - hasn't missed a beat!

Dr :8

Thanks for your input fellas. Yeah Jaba, I know the name is a bit suss for a topic such as this!

Anyway, last years failure, more so a partial failure, was due to carby ice (my fault, I know).
Todays glitch, after getting checked out by a LAME has been put down to a fold in the tank bladder cutting off the fuel outlet.

Neither of which were a failure of the engine!:E

Dr :8

Been flying for twenty years in around 20 different aircraft without a problem call it LUCK.

Neither of which were a failure of the engine!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

Ok,Ok, I get your point Doc. Still, the fan out front wasnt making a noise!
Well, not a nice noise! :}

A partial in a C150 at about 30Hrs. (Valve)
A partial in a C150 at about 300Hrs( fuel contamination)
A complete in a P68B at about 500Hrs(Acc drive gear)
A complete in a C172 at about 4500Hrs(Carby butterfly shaft breakage)
A Precautionary shut down in a C310 at 4600Hrs (oil termp indication)
A partial in a C172 at around 5000Hrs (Valve and then piston failure)
Otherwise I'm doing alright at around 8500ish. :eek:
Haven't managed to bend one yet.

13,000 hours or thereabouts, over 25 years.

1 unscheduled auto feather in a DH8-200 (water in a PFM box)
1 faulty overspeed governor shut down #3 (ALF502) just after take off.

In 700Hrs

3 x Partial Engine Failures (still had enough power to make a safe landing) (1 was overwater outside gliding distance)
4 x Electrical/Alternator failures
2 x Undercarriage not come down (1 was hydraulic actuator failure in C72R the other was nose gear overtravel in a baron due to faulty brake motor in the system causing the nosegear to overtravel and jam up) managed to get the baron's wheels down manually on the last attempt. Landed the Gutlass with wheels unlocked at night.

300

10'500 hrs mostly GA - expecting my 9th engine failure any day now.

Apart from a couple of hundred hours in pistons for military training, I had ten years mil flying followed by thirty years airline. Never had an engine failure. Not luck just better and more reliable equipment.

Things better today than they were 50 years ago
It was take a cut lunch and yer water bottle to work then :ooh:

02JUL37 US Export CofA E-2870 issued.
04JUL37 Completed at Lockheed, Burbank as L-10B with Wright Whirlwind engines.
09AUG37 Arrived at Victoria Dock, Melbourne as deck cargo on the S.S. "Mirrabooka" on delivery to Ansett Airways.
13AUG37 Registration application from Ansett Airways Ltd.
16AUG37 Test flown at Essendon.
26AUG37 Added to the Australian Register as VH-UZO. On the same day, the aeroplane was test flown by Lockheed test pilot, Moyle Stephens who gave dual instruction to Ansett pilots including R.M. Ansett.
30AUG37 First survey flight Melbourne-Mildura-Broken Hill by Captains V. Cerche and H.F. Boston.
MAR42 Participated in the evacuation of Broome, WA and Darwin NT after Japanese air raids.
JUN42 Leased to the USAAF for 3 years. Operated mainly Melbourne-Cairns and Melbourne-Darwin averaging 20 hours daily.
12SEP42 Forced landing near Seymour, VIC due propeller failure.
05OCT42 Taxied into a refuelling unit at Townsville and damaged.
OCT42 Based at Mascot, Sydney on USASOS charter Sydney-Townsville.
12OCT42 Forced landing at Rockhampton, QLD due oil leak.
17OCT42 Forced landing at Rockhampton, QLD due oil problems.
18OCT42 Two forced landings at Rockhampton due oil problems. Engine changed.
21NOV42 Forced landing at Archerfield, QLD due to engine failure.
06FEB43 Forced landing at Old Bar, NSW due oil pressure.
09FEB43 Forced landing at Townsville due oil pressure.
07MAR43 Severely damaged during wheels up forced landing at Somerset Dam near Brisbane, QLD. Prop blade broke off in flight and engine broke loose from mounts.
30MAR43 Aircraft en route to Essendon by sea.
29JUN43 CofA renewed after test flight at Essendon after major rebuild.
09JUL43 Forced landing at Mascot due rough running engine.
12JUL43 Struck refuelling unit at Townsville damaging propeller.
13AUG43 Forced landing at Rockhampton due rough running engine.
21AUG43 Forced landing at Mascot due rough running engine.
22NOV43 Forced landing at Mascot due rev drop on starboard engine.
17DEC43 Forced landing at Townsville due engine trouble.
20DEC43 Forced landing at Mascot due oil pressure.
27JAN44 Forced landing at Archerfield due oil pressure.
30JAN44 Forced landing at Mascot due fuel pressure.
06MAR44 Forced landing at Casino, NSW due engine failure.
09APR44 Forced landing at Archerfield due instrument failure.
10APR44 Forced landing at Archerfield due engine trouble.
20APR44 Forced landing at Rockhampton due engine trouble.
23APR44 Forced landing at Rockhampton due engine trouble.
27OCT44 Trailing HF aerial struck by lightning while on charter flight Sydney-Melbourne-Sydney. Explosion inside the cabin opened the escape hatch. Forced landing at Holbrook, NSW.
04NOV44 Forced landing Rockhampton, returned after departure due rough running starboard engine. Landed at 1411 local. Cpt. Charles Gatenby, F/O Charles Eather.
05NOV44 Forced landing Coffs Harbour due rough running starboard engine. Given ground run then continued flight to Sydney but subsequently force landed at Kempsey with similar problem. The spark plugs in the starboard engine were cleaned and the engine ground run. Cpt. Charles Gatenby, F/O Charles Eather.
08NOV44 Forced landing at Woy Woy, NSW due noise on cabin roof. Found to be rubber packing from cockpit escape hatch.
14NOV44 Forced landing at Mascot due rough running starboard engine.
28NOV44 Forced landing at Mascot due oil pressure in port engine.
03DEC44 Forced landing at Mangalore, VIC due engine trouble.
14DEC44 Badly damaged in forced landing near Tumut, NSW. Trucked to Essendon for repairs.
07APR45 CofA renewed after test flight at Essendon.
01SEP45 An overnight wind storm at Parafield blew Lodestar VHCAC into VH-UZO damaging a wing of VH-UZO. VHCAC had been parked with brakes on but no chocks. (NAA via G. Goodall)
45 Returned to commercial service with Ansett Airways.
24AUG49 CofA expired and not renewed.
01MAR50 CofA renewed until 03MAR50 to allow test flights at Essendon prior to sale.
01MAR50 VH-UZO was demonstrated to Adastra at Essendon. Adastra were considering purchasing the aircraft from Ansett Airways but a sale did not eventuate.
05JAN51 Sold to South Coast Airways Pty Ltd, Wollongong, NSW as VH-UZO. To be used on services between Sydney and Cowra.
03FEB51 CofA renewed.
15MAR51 Undercarriage collapsed prior takeoff at Wollongong.
11MAY51 Test flown after repairs and CofA renewed.
07AUG53 Sold to Christey's Motors Pty Ltd, Sydney as VH-CMA.
05DEC55 Sold to Carsair Air Service (PNG) Pty Ltd.
15OCT58 Sold to Western Air Navigation Pty Ltd, Charleville QLD as VH-WAO.
27JUL60 Sold to C.H. Degotardi Air Services Pty Ltd, Sydney as VH-CHD. Based at Bankstown, Sydney and used mainly to fly potential customers to inspect real estate. Named "Miss Real Estate".
06DEC62 Sold to Marshall Airways Pty Ltd, Bankstown, NSW as VH-ASM. Used for general charter and aerial ambulance work.
23JUL67 Emergency landing at Bankstown with smoking engine and suspect undercarriage. Believed to be last flight for Marshall Airways.
27OCT67 Struck off Register as withdrawn from use.

VH-UZO - The Lockheed File

Doing a quick straw poll among friends I reckon it's around once every 6000 hours! As 4 Greens says the better equipment you fly, the better off you are! Most people I know have had failures in pistons, although I do know of two total failures in turbines, one was a fuel pump and the other reduction gears...:ooh:

Jet's of course fail everytime you get in the sim!;)

Contrary to popular training practices, not many failures happen on take off!:rolleyes:

two in 15,000 hours GA
 

I had two turbo charger failures in a chieftain on climbout. Otherwise no engine failures in 15,000 hours in GA.

700 hrs in Jabiru's and GA, only 1 failure, throttle stop bracket on carby broke, allowing throttle to go to idle/cutoff when turning final. in a Jab LSA

3500 hours I have had... 2 x partials, 1 full failure (Magneto failure), numerous gear failures (always able to manually extend), numerous electrical failures, 1 precautionary shutdown of a turbine and 1 engine fire in flight.

ahhh the good old days :}

8 years and about 3500 hours and so far so good. In order as best as can remember:



Partial engine failure in a C152, about 50% power loss (mag problem) with a flat tire on landing after the resulting diversion (slow leak in flight, apparently ran over something on takeoff).

Intermittent total electrical failure in IMC followed by a Localizer approach flown primarily with a handheld nav/com in a C172RG.

Vaccuum system failure right after takeoff into IMC in a Warrior.

Landed an Arrow (successfully) after a big "BOOM" and nosegear malfunction / unsafe indication; turned out the drag strut had suffered an internal fatigue failure and was pushed over the edge by engine vibration; it was completely broken in half.

2 prop overspeeds in different Aztecs (3000-3200 RPM, one on a takeoff, one on a go-around).

Full #1 hydrauic system failure in a DHC-8 with Iso Valve light and zero-flap landing, etc.




No total engine failures or fires yet. Not hoping for any in the near or distant future (except in the box, of course).:8

nearly 30 yrs of flying, one failed engine in a C150 about 200 ft prior to ldg due carby ice. Oh btw it was my very first flight in a plane !:)



CW

Im not going to post hours or what I have/haven't had for fear of tempting Murphy! Got a good few months left in pistons so I will get back to you when I am on something burning JetA1!!

Im not supersticious! I swear! :E

CW:

Is that why you seem to have such an aversion to SE aircraft?

sc

One power turbine failure on a C130E at about 2000hrs, interestingly about 5 mins before TOPD at the end of a 3 hour trip cruising at F250. Still raised the pulse rate a little, despite the fairly normal descent and approach.

Second and last one (so far) on a F900 at about 3500hrs in 2001. This one was at climb thrust passing about 10000'... also a power turbine failure, although it was No 2 (out of 3) so straightforward from a handling point of view.

Also have about 1000hrs in there flying behind an IO-360, which never gave me any grief whatsoever :confused:

Engine failures
 

Hi 4 single engine landings in twin engine aeroplanes in nearly 20 years or 10000 hrs.3 in turboprops & 1 heavy jet.One complete turbine failure with shards of metal entering the fuselage.Lucky only a freighter.On shutdown swinging prop of good engine noticed blood & feathers around airinlet.Other 2 just in flight shutdowns due low oil pressure.Believe me you always carry a few more knots on final when you are on one engine for real.Heavy jet no problem.

'sprocket' good pickup there buddy, you might be right, must be that deep seated experience (that I had almost 4goten about) that has made me quiver when the 'fan' is out in front of me instead of either out on the wings or a couple down the back:p

BTW the subject heading "engine failure, how common".........quick answer even just one is too common !

CW

During my first multi lesson in a seneca I had a electrical fire in the electrical panel to the left, resulting in turning off the Mags to one engine. In the approach, the electrics totally failed when the gear went out, loosing the gear lights before going to all green. We did a go around (single engine), and played with the switches to get the greens back for landing on the next attempt. Cause was water overnight getting through the storm window.

Partial power at about 300ft after takeoff in a single engine, carb heat application didn't make things worse than the norm 150-200rpm drop as expected, and I managed to nurse it back around to land on the runway in the opposite direction. Cause was fuel contamination.

Heavy turboprop, engine stopped at night, 200ft after take off. Came back to land. Cause was a propeller control unit failure. Fortunately the aircraft type has a auto feather feature.

Heavy turboprop engine stopped just prior to top of descent, at night. Unfortunately for me the Captain wouldn't allow a relite attempt. Cause was about half the amps were getting through to the heating element in the air intake and there was a flame out from ice ingestion.

So far we seem to have more turbine than piston engine failures!

Dr :8

single engine turboprops never have failures
 

just ask the sales people about that. They will tell you.

1 x Gear Failure (it wouldn't retract so this might not count :-)
1 x Partial only a week and a half ago - Mag Failure.

If it's gonna fail, that is the way you want it!;)

.....now now :8Dr the piston drivers simply don't want to take up every page here with their tales of piston engine failures:) Note also that with the numerous turbine failures they ALWAYS return safely, that's the main difference, those that would love to tell of their piston engine failures say after T/Off for Eg. can't tell, 'cause thier not here!:E


CW:)

Where is FLOPT when you need him..... he has a tale to tell about a couple and at night in a single too :ooh:. That same a/c is still going to this day...... albeit after another one due to a lame stuff up!

J:ok:

One carb icing event, in a C182 (The Icemaker) at night in IMC over the border ranges tracking Coffs to TWB. Easy fixed with the carb heat but plenty of pucker in the meantime :uhoh:.

One engine failure in a piston twin in day VMC, just after T/O in a fully loaded PA31; had a MAP split and loss of power on one side, managed 50 FPM at VYSE while still making some power on the dud engine - don't want to think about ROC if it had completely clagged it:yuk: Was a FCU.

One turn back just after T/O in a Kingair in day VMC, with loss of oil pressure and profuse oil leak (complete engine oil volume expelled in about 28 nanoseconds):eek: Was a prop governor control seal.

One gear indication failure in a C404 - a microswitch.

Two total vacuum failures: a PA32 in night VMC and a Baron in day IMC just after T/O - the PA32 was a pump failure and the Baron was a pressure controller which took out the whole pneumatic system:{. Used the TC to maintain control.

One electrical fire in a C404 - a vent fan.

Two flat tyres - one an Aztec that the previous driver flat spotted and didn't say anything, just parked it with the hole on the bottom:mad:, the other a 404 that had a rim separation while taxying.

That's about all I think. For-real engine failures seem relatively uncommon; system failures are more prevalent.

geeez 'jamair' remind me to stay away from you, yr jinxed !:E

Hey 'HH' I had the same trouble not too long ago whilst on a test flt to see if the U/c would come down after months of hassles with manual gear extentions & multiple failures. The engineers where pulling their hair out, changed everything inc the rear seats! But cop this after T/Of it wouldn't come up !!!!
Talk about laugh!:p



CW

Ahhhh CW, Jamair has found a pretty good job driving a S/E Kero burner........ you better hope there is no IFR involved in the usually CAVOK skies of FNQ:E

J

I had a complete engine failure in a cub. very similar to the one you just completed Capt Wally. mine was the J3 though.......without flaps. Just floated her down and walked beside it while I landed. :} You know what I'm on about.
Recharged the ignition battery and launched again for another hour of relaxation. :ok:

We had two failures inside 2 months a little over a year ago. The first was a gear failure. That scared us enough and then on descent to our base a few weeks later the critical engine gave up due to what we believe was water in the FCU (ran fine after replacing the FCU!). Imagine how I felt just after such an experience walking towards the staff canteen for a strong coffee to recover when the manager of the organisation chartering the aircraft runs up to me and asks just how soon can we go flying again today. Oh, throw in a bird strike for good measure in just about the same spot as the engine failure about two weeks after that memorable event. All this inside my first 1000 hours.

Had my most scary moment just recently, Cabin filling rapidly with smoke just after turning downwind! :eek:
after giving a radio call advising others in the circuit of my intention to land immediately and aiming for mid runway, everything turned off, except ignition, smoke didnt stop, it only took about a minute to land, but it felt like an eternity, especially when your expecting to see flames in the cab or feel the heat of a fire on my feet at any moment.:eek::eek:


cause was leaking oil vent pipe allowing oil to leak onto the exhaust manifold