Fee-help
 

Hi fellow ppruners,
just wondering if anybody has heard anything more about the FEE-HELP situation. I am very keen on going from part-time training to full-time. Can anybody enlighten me?

Speedbird 9

It was supposed to have been put up on the 21st June but that didn't happen.

Currently it is delayed until "later this year".

No other info regarding the scheme has surfaced.

It's still not 100% that flight training will get on the band wagon but it's likely that it will.

Not sure about that 21/06 date, but the info session regarding this scheme (for flight schools classified as RTOs) are being held all of June-July.

If this goes ahead, it will give access to what they refer to as VET-FEE HELP (Vocation Education and Training) for courses such as Diplomas, etc. with a loan of up to $80,000. I am assuming this won't be finalised until later this year, but could potentially cover the full cost associated with flight training.

Hopefully it will cover conversions from fixed wing to helihead!;)

speaking of which, I must ask, if the FEE-HELP doesn't go ahead, and I was to get a loan, (discussing this tonight with people), is it possible to claim the interest on the loan on tax? (provided I get a job in the aviation industry)

I heard murmours tonight about it... (That you can claim interest on loans if the loan is a 'training loan', if you get a job in the respective industry)

Deductions can only be claimed when they have a connection with income earned in that year. So if you get a job in the same year you can claim it. Interest just like training costs are expenses. Neither are deductible unless you earn an income from flying IN THAT YEAR.

so if your loan is taken out over say 5 years? if you earn income from flying in any of those 5 years you can claim tax back on the interest from that year ? not sure if that made sense?

I'm not sure they will allow you to do that. The tax on the interest you are able to claim is on a financial year basis (not over 5 years) meaning even if your loan is over a 5-year period if you haven't worked in the industry in that year you will not get anything back.

ye that makes sense..cheers

Mhm, i'll check it out, however, thanks :ok:

Who has an update on things with this scheme? Anyone shed any light on the current state of things?

Payment for courses as of 2009 i think, can be offset to approx. $81 000

This may not be the case as I've heard of FTO's giving talks on FEE-HELP so could mean that the offset of payments can already be done.

I am under the impression however that the only way flying training can be offset is in conjunction with a diploma type course.

Griffith Uni still haven't updated their website if that's the case.

Griffith University | Bachelor of Aviation - Nathan

"Students will be responsible for the payment of all relevant aviation tuition fees (approximately $20,000-$25,000 per year over three years) directly to an approved aviation flying training provider."

Just spoke to some people that know about these things. The delays are caused by each provider's application having to be passed through parliment under some Universities control regulation.

It's about a 3 month process per provider and they think they are holding off offering it until they have a number of providers passed so there's no distinct advantage to any one.

Looks like the start of next year will be the go...

from what I've heard, any course which credits/leads on to a university degree is eligible (up to $80,000) apparently.

Flyhigh744 i was also told that the flying can only be offset in conjunction with a diploma..and also that you can only enrol in the diploma course if you have already commenced undergraduate studies.

So basically the uni that gave me this info said that you have to start the Bachelor degree at the beginning of 2009, then, instead of starting the flying training at 6 weeks into the course, you have to hold off until the second semester which is when you can start the diploma. I was told that that is the only way to take advantage of the $80 000 system.

fee help issues
 

There is a huge amount of misinformation around about FEE HELP. It will not be available for flight training except those courses linked to the Universities, it will not be available to schools which hold RTO status at this stage.

The big issue is that the course has to have a Direct Credit Transfer to a University course - no aviation courses have a DIRECT CREDIT TRANSFER to a Uni course! Therefore they are not eligible.

sorry
Oz

NOT a big issue, just something the RTOs need to organise with a Uni. (I know at least one in VIC that have already prepared for this and are just waiting for the govt. sign off).

The Universities are not allowed to refuse a valid application for course credit transfer nor are they allowed to refuse the request for a RTO to arrange credit transfer if the RTO application passes their requirements. Point four below applies and is not a tought thing to get arranged, you've just got to go and ask and do what they want to gain the approval.

TAFE's, Tech training RTO's etc. do this ALL the time with trade skills courses rolling up into Grad Certs, Bachelor's Degrees, etc. with Uni's like RMIT, Box Hill, Deakin, etc.

From the DEEWR web site:
The VET FEE-HELP IT System (VITS) is available for Registered Training Organisations seeking approval as a VET provider. Organisations must meet specific requirements under Schedule 1A of the Higher Education Support Act 2003 to receive approval as a VET provider before their current and future students can access VET FEE-HELP assistance.
As a pre-requisite, you should be able to confirm that your organisation can meet the following requirements before you seek approval as a VET provider:

• Be a body corporate whose principal purpose is to provide education;
• Be a Registered Training Organisation as listed on the National Training Information Service (NTIS);
• Be financially viable and likely to remain financially viable;
• can offer VET accredited Diploma and Advanced Diploma courses with credit transfer arrangements and/or VET accredited Graduate Certificate and Graduate Diploma courses;
• Is part of an approved tuition assurance scheme, a guarantee or an exemption; and
• Have administrative procedures and capacity to meet reporting requirements.

Thanks for the replies guys, according to the RTO where I do my training, the system should be up and running by next year for advanced diploma type courses. Has anybody heard any different?

So this FEE HELP is only available to people doing a Diploma. So myself doing my CPL with a local flying school doesn't get any help because it's not classified as a diploma, yet we both do the same theory and practical :ugh:. Seems stupid to me. What is the difference between a diploma and the 150 hr CPL course? Besides a shinny bit of paper you get to wipe your ass with, you still end up with a CPL at the end!

With an RTO supplying a registered Diploma course you know what you are getting has been audited and accredited with the goverment body's responsible for assessing and evaluating a training course and organisation.

With a local flight school you're getting, well, a local flight school that could be doing anything they want as far as training is concerned, as long as it fits in the casa regs. The regs. are aimed at safety (a noble cause), not training.

I have been scouring the internet for information on this topic as of late as I am starting my CPL course early next year and dont want to miss out on this opportunity.
I emailed many flight schools around sydney and so far only one has replied with this :

" Hi,

Thanks for your enquiry.

At the moment we are expecting to offer VET FEE HELP to our students by February/March 2009.

Once this is approved all of our Diploma courses are applicable for VET FEE HELP for Australian students.

I hope you find this information useful. "

So I will be holding out for a little while longer before I start I guess.

The loan is $81600 and repayment doesnt begin until you are earning $41594 in the 08-09 period (taken from Student and Parent Information)

I think its worth doing the diploma or advanced diploma to qualify for the loan if you are finding it difficult to come up with the funds!

Anyone have any idea if any flight schools are still trying to get this off the ground?

As i understand it at the moment only griffith uni and swinbourne offer fee help as way of funding flying training. At swinburne you have to already have to have been selected for a cadetship with one of the airlines Griffith dont require this. So far it seems strictly for airline cadet type candidates only not much use if you are interested in a career in GA/ rotary or anything else.
Im interested if any one has any further light to shed on this. It did all seem a bit too good to be true to me.

Westerntribal..

UniSA aviation academy have it up and running but to be eligible you need to have either already done a degree or be enrolled in a degree for about 6 months (see my earlier post..it is relevant to UniSA). Or visit the website for all the info: University of South Australia - Program LGCV, Graduate Diploma in Aviation (2009)

This means you would have to live in Adelaide though :rolleyes:

anyone know if we can get fee-help via the Griffith aviation program in Brisbane? I can't access the griffith uni site from work :*

Short answer is - no.

The Griffith Graduate Diploma is only accessible to students of the Bachelor of Aviation that have undergone the QF Cadet selection process and have completed 1.5yr of the degree (I think).

ps: I'm surprised PPruNe isn't blocked aswell :ok:

Wow, a uni could make a heap of cash if they were able to set up a program like UniSA's for post grad quals leading to an endo for a 737, Dash 8, Airbus or other popular aeroplane... I'd probably sign up and put an endo on HECS (or FEE HELP as I understand it is now called).

While it may be a half-baked idea I don't think it's a bad one. Nine units for Ground School, nine units for a CRM course and eighteen units for the sim (or nine for sim and another nine for something else like an extended Aerodynamics or Met unit).

Comments?

FRQ CB

this is sort of the answer to those wanting to fly but can't afford the upfront $80k - I don't know why this isn't more widely offered. Not only that, it seems to be limited to those who have been accepted into a cadet program. I can understand the logic of only accepting students who have a 'guaranteed' job at the end of it but c'mon...you're submitting your TFN, its not like you're going to run away from it!!

And so could the flight schools that are VETAB accredited, which makes me wonder why it hasn't happened yet. It seems like win win win.. for the Student, Flying school and Uni. The government is OK with paying the universities $40000+ on HECS for hundreds of people a year to do a science or engineering degree so I cant see the fees being a sticking point.( By the way I think their should be entry requirements simlar to UniSA's course as there is with engineering or science degree's)
Searching the foums this fee-help idea has been kicking around for a number of years and has never really got off the ground. Is it political ? is it that ACPET have no idea. Maybe Julia Gillard is about to fix it all with her banging on about overhauling vocational training today.. who would know ... end rant.

I'm a student at Griffith currently, and I can guarantee that you don't have to be a cadet or apply for the cadetship to get the FEE-HELP. FEE-HELP is similar to HECS, but with HECS you don’t have the 20% borrowing fee, and HECS has a interest rate whereas FEE-HELP loans are adjusted according to the CPI. The loan fee doesn’t apply for post-graduate courses, given that the name of the course is a graduate diploma of flight management, then that might mean we don’t have to worry about that, but I’m not sure on that point.
The key thing here is not to worry too much about the Griffith website; no-one truly knows what’s going on there. You do need to be enrolled in the Bachelor of Aviation to get into the Grad. Dip., but you can start the Grad. Dip. straight away. If you want to have a crack at the QF cadetship you do have to wait the 18 months before starting the flying.
If you’re interested, last year 35 people applied for the cadetship and Qantas took 6, who start their training in the next few weeks.
Hope all that was helpful.

Ozzie Mozzie,

I have been in contact with the course coordinator Paul Bates, through emails/phone calls and have been told the same thing several times. That is - to be offered a place in the Grad. Diploma the website states:

Furthermore, the program duration is:

Now, if you say people can get in the Grad. Diploma straight away, does that mean the B.Av is no longer existing? Or is the Grad. Dip. only accessible to post-grad students?

I can only answer that to the best of my knowledge, but my recommendation to you is that if your seriously looking into it, ring Paul or his assistant and book a time to go and see him in person, write down all the questions you have so you don’t forget anything and run through them with him. He can be a bit impatient at times because he does a lot of work for the course, but I mean it's your $80K FEE-HELP and god knows how much on HECS for the degree.
I do know however that you do have to be enrolled in the B. Av. to get in the grad. Dip., however I was told the other week by Batesy himself that you can enter the grad dip straight away if you wished, but that would disqualify you from the cadetship. Most of the students don’t enter the Grad. Dip. till their third year for this reason, although this year it’s changed so that the second years are going into the Grad. Dip. now but they’ll only be going up to their GFTP level by the end of the year and leaving the rest (I think you can choose to get either a CIR or flight instructor rating) until the third year. Griffith recommends you do the programme their way because they believe that it would be too much work to do the full Grad. Dip. and B. Av. in the first two years, although I reckon if you were switched on and prepared to knuckle right down you could probably get away with it. Your quote says you need 80CP to be eligible for the award of the Grad. Dip., which I read to mean you have to have 80CP in the B. Av. to get the piece of paper with diploma at the top, not to actually enrol in the course.
If you’re not after FEE-HELP, and for some reason were set on getting a B. Av, Griffith have ‘flight training providers’ that you can pay for yourself and still get the degree, the only one I know of is ADFA at Maroochy.
But like I said, if you are thinking of enrolling I strongly recommend you go and see Paul Bates in person and discuss the options with him, just like you would if you were choosing a flying school.

Good news for those eligible. Swinburne Uni (TAFE division) has been approved as a VET FEE-HELP provider. Meaning for those of you who were considering the 3 year degree in order to offset the training costs, you can now do the 1 yr certificate instead and obtain the same qualifications.

Great option I think. Only wish I was under 20 y.o! :sad:

I have also heard that Aerospace Aviation at YSBK is awaiting approval (or already has obtained approval) and will be going through a selection process before accepting applications. Something along the lines of 3-4hrs flight training to see if the student has the aptitude, is picking things up quickly, etc.

thats awesome. Hopefully it comes through.

VET Fee Help
 

As I understand the system the interest rate means you will pay back about an extra 20%on your $80,000.00. By the way, the ISEA Integrated JAA course is actually a Vocational Graduate Certificate and contains a total of 25 hours in a PA31

it would be good if we had a list of flying schools with (pending) FEE HELP approval.

Clarifying HECS vs FEE HELP & VET vs TERTIARY
 

Hopefully the following will help clarify how the various systems operate.

HECS:

Is the Higher Education Contribution Scheme and is used for undergraduate level studies at universities. The government subsidises costs for these courses however a student still incurrs a 'HECS debt' to be paid of through the tax system when earning a certain amount of income.

A student has the option to pay off their 'HECS debt' up front and receive a 20% 'discount' i.e. if you don't pay up front you will be charged 20% interest.

The value of any outstanding debt in also annualy indexed in line with inflation.

FEE HELP:

Is the interest free government loan scheme for post-graduate studies. A student may borrow a cumulative lifetime total amount of about $81K for higher education purposes.

Like HECS studets pay back the loan through the tax system and there is NO INTEREST CHARGED under this scheme although outstanding balances are indexed annually in line with inflation.

VET FEE HELP:

Is the program set up by government to encourage Australian students to take up careers in aviation through registered VOCATIONAL EDUCATION TRAINING providers. This has the same lifetime loan limit as for the tertiary FEE HELP system and is paid back under the same arrangements.

NOTE: An individual is not permitted to make use of the $81k for VET FEE HELP and another $81k under FEE HELP. It is a total lifetime limit irrespective of which scheme it may come from i.e. you are permitted to use $40k under VET FEE HELP and another $40k under FEE HELP.

So how does one tell the difference between VET programs and TERTIARY/HIGHER EDUCATION programs? The title of the program is your best guide.

VET programs have titles such as Certificate I, II, III or IV, Diploma or Advanced Diploma. Tertiary programs have titles such as Graduate Certificate, Graduate Diploma or Masters.

So........

VET FEE HELP can be accessed for aviation programs through approved institutions offering Certificate I, II, III, IV or Diploma and Advanced Diploma. This includes flight training costs.

FEE HELP can be accessed for tertiary higher education aviation programs but only for the academic components i.e. it does not contribute to flight training costs. Flight training costs however may be covered under cadetship schemes or other financing arrangements.

Beware that some tertiary insitutions do run technical training divisions under the VET banner, the program titles outlined above are the best guide to decipher if it is VET or tertiary and which loan scheme may apply.

and you got that bit wrong as well. FEE-Help only attracts interest if it is used for under graduate purposes - when used for graduate purposes there is NO charge or interest.:=