BSB, erm, so you are saying they must say something on the radio to ensure they look out the windows???

What I was trying to get across is that an IFR A/C still has a 'See & Avoid' responsibility when not in cloud. Which includes unreported VFR aircraft not showing on radar and not fitted with TCAS. The VFR aircraft obviously also has a See & Avoid responsibility, but not necessarily a position reporting responsibility. I submit that If the TOPD brodcast by the IFR aircraft included its compass quadrant from the aerodrome, then the VFR aircraft has a better chance to alert the inbound IFR aircraft of any potential conflict. I am in full agreement with the case origionally put forward by 2 dogs, but as Ando 1 bar (I know you've got more bars than that now Ando), it is not actually a requirement. My submission is that adding a compass quadrant to the 'All Stations' call by the IFR aircraft could be inserted into the AIP exactly as in the manner required for information required to be provided when inbound to a procedural controlled tower. To me it is a good idea put forward by 2 Dogs, just not actually required by the letter of the law.

If any "all stations broadcast" was required by the IFR aircraft (in VMC)then surely it would also have to provided by VFR aircraft..

As others have stated already, an IFR aircraft in VMC has much the same responsibilities as a VFR aircraft.. so good for the goose is good for the gander as they say....

would be alot of feathers flying on the area frequency...

xxGoldxx, The only difference being that the IFR A/C has to give an "all Stations" broadcast because of the impending change in level and the responsibility to organise seperation from all other A/C. ATC will give details of known traffic, which only leaves the unreported VFR traffic. The whole crux of this discussion is if the TOPD broadcast should include the inbound radial and/or compass quadrant from the aerodrome in that broadcast. I think those types of TOPD broadcast calls could be known as '2 Dogs' reports.

Yeah ok.. but if the VFR guy has been at 9500 for 2 hours and is about to leave a level what is the difference between him/her and the IFR at 9000 doing the same ??

The IFR guy already gets passed known IFR and quite possibly observed VFR if in radar coverage..

If its so needed for IFR then would it not be needed more so for VFR with no traffic picture at all...?? (in VMC..ok..)

perhaps the safest idea is a large area around busy locations where people were required to all be on the one frequency and talk to each other to enhance safety without cluttering up centre frequency.. we could call it a RBZ.. cause we know a MBZ didn't work eh !!

xxgoldxx, I agree totally but....
Back to Two Dogs original post
Very valid concern.
'All Stations' broadcast of Distance and/or Azimuth are not actually required by AIP.
Maybe it should be.

Mission accomplished?
 

Congratulations to the many pilots out there that seem to have taken my suggestion on board.

I regularly hear a good majority of Far North Queensland OCTA traffic including azimuth and distance information in their TOPD reports/broadcasts lately.

Well done Ladies and Gentlemen!

Two Dogs

As I learn in this flying game I'm constantly finding that the AIP/Jepps aren't a good representation of what really goes on out there, just because it's written in those documents doesn't mean it's right/applicable.


FG

The CTAF frequency is really handy when I'm 30Nm from the aerodrome at 6500ft. :ugh:

Breaking the rules????

Our Ops Manual requires a ToD call to be made on the CTAF freq when operating both VFR and IFR. This call includes the distance and the quadrant inbound from. Made after the ToD report to centre.

As this can be around 50nm out another call is made closer to the aerodrome.

If I could also add AIP requires the inbound broadcast to be made by 10nm, if there is traffic operating at the aerodrome and your first call is made at 10nm (3 minutes out) this doesnt leave much time to sort out sequencing for other departing/arriving aircraft with close ETAs.

10nm flying a C150 at the flying school was fine, in the Charter world you are more than likely grounding about 50%+ more, a 15-20nm inbound call gives everybody some time.

I read this has been noted for the new proposed changes. A 10nm or 6 minute out call.

Nav.