ATPL Flight Planning Tricks, Short Cuts etc
 

Hi All

I have just started ATPL Flight Planning and just wondering if anyone that has done it has any short cuts, tips, tricks etc to pass on.

I am going through all of Nathans (AFT) notes and doing all the work, and am getting the hang of it, albeit quite slowly at the moment.

I know some people average out headings, winds etc and create "super sectors" and just including them within TOC and TOD, though not sure if that will yield a constant and accurate result.

I am especially interested if anyone has tricks on creating a good 'guesstimate' on flight fuel required that is more accurate than (NM x 10) + 1600 that would give me a good and more accurate figure to check my final figures against.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance! :)

Did FPLA a few weeks ago
 

I have some more accurate figures. PM me for them if you want. The AFT is all you need to pass but if you can be bothered to do a few more minutes of calculation on the big questions then I can help you out. Sometimes the rules of thumb don't give you a clear cut answer in the test. Some answers have only 50 kilo's difference between them. If you muck up your landing weight for a 1 inop PNR then you need all the accuracy you can get.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one struggling.

I am self studying Rob Avery due to work commitments and a tight budget. Sure, he's the one suggesting "super sector" calculations. Even so, I am worried I might run out of time in the exam with those. Do I really have to split them up ?

Besides, some of my calculated wind components and SGRs differ slightly from his examples.

Crank1000, could you PM me also ? Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks Lando! Gold.

From memory the big questions are worth 4 or 5 marks, and are all toward the end- fun things like PNRs, ETPs etc.

Do these big mark ones first (and hopefully correctly). After the practice exams youll have an idea on how long each of these take- then allow yourself say 10-15 minutes per each of these. If you don't have the answer, move to the next one. Don't dwell on them if you are stuck, move on and come back little later.
Then work down through the lesser mark questions. It's more likely quicker and easier to discount and guess from a 1-2 mark question. Also, if you guess and get wrong a 5 marker as opposed to a 1-2 marker, the impact to your end result is a lot worse!

That's my tip!

Thanks for the good advice.

I don't want to start a Rob Avery vs AFT argument (indeed I have great respect for both) but just to give a couple of examples, Rob suggests supersectors rather than split them up, and then on climbs AFT says use FL185 winds up to FL310 but Rob says use the average of FL185 and FL 235 - they both go either way, if you see what I mean.

Thanks landof4x, I was recently doing an ETP practice question and your point was right on.

Also, I have slipped up on distances in the past because of the way they worded it - in the heat of the exam, too many flashing lights ...

Keep the great tips coming, I need every one of them to pass this exam.

rep, just goes to prove it's just an exam, which is what I have been trying to tell myself, I'll forget everything as soon as it's over. I'm based in Vic and have my hands full, just couldn't get away to Queensland for the course. I appreciate what you're saying. I've only heard praises for NHiggins.

2 hours for AFPA ? That must be a record. Wish I could sit at Maroochy too, as the ladies here tend to be a bit more detailed :=

Any more shortcuts which come to mind apart from the ERCs ?

There's a document floating around that has a very, very accurate way of estimating SGRs.. I'll see if I can dig it up - its accurate enough to get your fuel burn to within 30 or so kilograms, and saves a heap of time - now if only I could remember where I filed it...:confused:

Be careful if you do this. Some exam supervisors are extremely pedantic. After doing the practice exams successfully I was cautiously confident, so I made a serious effort to thoroughly erase all of the marks on my charts. Exams are stressful enough, and I didn't want to put more pressure on myself by worrying about having charts rejected on the day.

So the charts I took in were completely clean, except for some very faint remains of the marks from doing practice exams. The supervisor spent 3 minutes with a rubber making them even fainter and wasn't happy even then (and did the same again at the end of the exam !)

When working out your fuel, work backwards. IE figure out what fuel you should have when you arrive (reserves), then start working out your fuel burn sector by sector, starting with the last sector first, first last. A short cut to calculating your take off weight.

Good one, kangaroota, I almost forgot this is crutial esp in PNR questions.

The problem I face most is how exact or how much of an average I should use to calculate winds from the RSWTs as I am finding great variances in deriving the SGR on longer hauls. Any one has good suggestions ?

did my one at Oct last year, finish it in less then 2 hours :}

from memory, when a/c goes up you will use the wind at 2/3 of the Altitude you are going to (ie. Sea Level to FL370 = use the wind @ FL235). when a/c goes down you will use the wind at half of the altitude you are going to (ie. FL370 to Sea Level = use the wind @ FL 185)

for 1 ENG INOP CP, always use Airspeed of 415kts (thats the way the question is writtern)

DP ops, always use F130 (both east and west) and M0.59, wind @ F180. descend time to Sea Level = 13 mins and 990kgs of fuel (including 400 kg of approach fuel)

write the total distance of the airway you have used in practice exam on ERC with pencil, that saves a few minutes

Airspeed = Mach no X 39 X sqrt (Temp in degree K)

always double check your mid-zone weight because you may be out by 0.1 tons and that make the difference between pass and fail

Typical fuel burnt per hour (both normal and 1 ENG INOP, depending on weight) ~ 4200-4400kg, anything outside that range usually indicate some error

from looking through my b727 manual, the SGR's i have written down are:

standard: 10kg/nm
depressurized: 13kg/nm
yaw damper inopp: 11kg/nm
OEI: 11kg/nm
landing gear extended: 20kg/nm

then u had to put in some manual changes like if you had a tailwind, e.g. your standard 10kg/nm woul be reduced by 1kg/nm per x amounts of tailwind component (dont remember the number). oppisate with headwinds of course

Thanks to rep and Cap787 for the golden advice. It has really lifted my spirits.

A question for Cap787 : the POH uses LRC for OEI so at FL230/240 the TAS goes from 405 to 415 as the weight increases from about 70T to 76T, which might make a difference with the SGRs. How can I be sure about using 415 TAS as you said ? Appreciate more input.

hes kinda right

my book says use 420kts for the TAS

for finding out the CP for OEI you just use a TAS of 420kts period. why? who knows we just did what nathan said! :P

for normal ops u get ur TAS from the temp and mach no.

Thanks rep for the response. If NH says 420, then 415/420 is good enough, no questions asked. I just want a pass !

Back to the grinding stone for now, but will keep checking this thread.

Thanks for all the fantastic advice guys!
Laso, if you could find that doc that would be awesome!!! :)

Any more info would be grealty appreciated!

I'm doing my ATPL exam at YBAF, I just hope I don't get the cranky pedantic exam supervisor that is there sometimes... :(

i did my one with len sales. i guess 415/420 won't make too much of a difference :O

415/420 can only be used with CP calculation. DO NOT use this figure with anything else :rolleyes:

Thanks capt787, I find using either 415 or 420 yields the right answer in most practice questions.

FYI, I've also found super sectors close enough to get a tick in the right box.

Keep those tips rolling in - they've been really useful. Good on ya, mate.

SGRs
 

For EMZWs between 70 and 80 tonnes, and a cruise level between FL290 and FL350,

Mach No: SAR (nil wind)

M 0.84 10.3
M 0.82 10.0
M 0.80 9.5
M 0.79 9.5
LRC 9.2


If your EMZW is not between 70 and 80 tonnes,
If over 80 tonnes, add 0.5
If under 70 tonnes, subtract 0.5

If your cruise level is outside FL290-FL350, add 1.0

For a headwind, add 0.02 per knot of wind.
For a tailwind, subtract 0.02 per knot of wind.

The resulting number will be pretty darn close to your SGR.

Thanks Lasio! Am gonna give them a whirl!

Are there any factors to add for unusual ops, such as DP, 2E, GE or TSE?

No, that's just for Normal Operations. But it saves a HEAP of time over the long questions.

Thanks Lasio, you're a champ! :ok:

Thanks Lasiorhinus, those numbers 70/80 tonnes and FL290/350 are certainly new to me. Great stuff for the exam.

WannaBeBiggles, I am only aware of the following abnormals:
OEI/DP/YDI/TSE 11.0
GE 20.0

Do these accord with your understanding? Some books say YDI @ 9.2 and TSE @ 10.0 but I think that's on the low side.

Nathan Higgins provides the following figures

Normal Ops 10
1-INOP 11
DP 13
YDI 10
TSE 11
LGE 20

However these are conservative, I've been getting much closer with some of the above figures.

I am playing around with track and wind averaging as well

((trk or wnd) x dist) + ((trk or wnd) x dist) + ((trk or wnd) x dist)
Sum of Distances

However I found that with track averaging, sometimes it's easier (and still rather accurate) to get out the protractor and just measure A-B.

Also, be sure to get to know the company policy well... been caught out a few times in the beginning taking 3300kg out for reserves in an inflight question, as opposed to 2250 (company policy stipulates that you only need 30mins fixed reserve when in-flight planning)

Agreed those SAR figures are conservative as more often than not strong HWCs and ISA+ temps push up the final SGR figures.

I've also found detailed track averaging too cumbersome and liable to mistakes under exam pressure conditons. Basically eyeballing the RSWT against the ERC-H waypoints produces a very near result in many cases.

Also regarding fuel allowances they often switch between startup weight and BRW - one of the many annoyances to get you wandering further off the correct answer.

Pppppp!
 

I finally got to meet the great legend himself, Nathan Higgins. With his help just recently, I was able to pass Flight Planning first crack! 80% and finished with an hour to spare :)

I found that there's only one way to pass this bugger, and that's to just do the work, the good ol' PPPPPP (Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance) comes to mind. No short cuts here I found.

My pointers to pass. Get a good picture in your head on what the subject is all about. I found with this, I was easily able to jump from one question to another with minimal fuss. Also, KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid!

For the flight plans, I broke it down into approx 5 box's, the first was getting, tracks: dont do the super sectors, too much work and worry. If you get your groundspeed out by more than 2-3kts, it can create havok at the end! Break it down, have a look at the wind sections then plan to a waypoint that is closest to it. If there's only one wind (like: YSSY-YBBN), then bonus, just plan YSSY-TOPC-TOPD-YBBN-APPRoach.

next distances, planned heights, ISA dev, wind (as per track notes above, and everyone elses, ie, 2/3's climb and 1/2 descent), TAS, Wind Comp and final GS. I found that all these in the above order just bounced off one another.

2nd box in a forward plan: figure out the climb figures - bang, done!

3rd box: figure out the descent figures - bang done!

4th box: do the rest of the cruise - bang, done!

5th box: calculate the fuel then add reserves.

Backward plans: 1st Box, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, 5th.

CP's, work out the CP first, then same as forward plan.

PNR's, pick one, then work towards it like the forward plan. Be careful to get the right amount of flight fuel. Then figure out how far you've got to move (if any) to the correct PNR using SGR's..

CPDP's are a give away 5 marks, pray for these buggers!!

Also got one 4 mark Payload question, so lucky!


Safe Planning,
go_soaring! instead

congrats, your a 10% over achiever :P

To save time track averaging, just use the track printed on the ERC at around halfway. Its going to be within three degrees of accurate, and remember, the forecast winds are only ever to within ten degrees anyway.

I'm sitting AFPL next tuesday, an not looking forward to it.. one thing I'm uncertain about is when you do the fuel recalculation for a 3-engine PNR, do you use 3300kg's or 2250kg's for the fixed reserve. I would have thought it was 3300kg's because that's the normal ops fixed reserve, but the working out (done by the instructor teaching it) that I have a copy of for this certain example uses 2250kg's? does anybody know what to use?

I dont have my 727 book handy, but become very familiar with the Company Fuel Policy pages at the front. The table on its side lists the reserves et cetera that you need for each situation, normal ops, normal+alternate, OEI, DP.

But dont forget that for in-flight planning, the reserves required are less than for pre-flight planning. Off the top of my head, I think the 45 min fixed reserve can be dropped to a 30 min fixed reserve, provided the aircraft has already taken off. The page before the fuel policy table explains this. Sorry I dont have page numbers.

1-17 is the preflight planning chart, theres a couple things that you have to change for inflight planning, these are on the page before it in the book.

Basically you only need 2250 instead of 3300 for inflight as compared to pre flight planning, and in some circumstances you don't need taxi/shutdown fuel at the other end:ok:

Old aircraft, new procedures/charts
 

Some questions for those of you with recent experience in Flight Planning:

Non RSVM cruise levels – According to exam guidelines, B727 is not RSVM approved but may operate in RSVM airspace. The charts these days only show RSVM hemispherical cruise levels. Old charts used to show both. Are we expected to memorise the non RSVM levels? Note AIP not permitted in exam so the table of crusing levels south of 65S is not accessible.

Terminal chart distances – Note that TAC’s are not permitted material in exam. How do we get the missing distances on High charts in the terminal area? Are they given in exam questions; do they have be measured against latitude scale?

Apologies if I'm overlooking something obvious....must be Flight Planning nerves:sad:

Thanks

Aviator777

RVSM - it's just a red herring. You can operate in RVSM airspace but only at non-RVSM levels (i.e. those in the book). Just colour code the altitude capablity page for east and westbound levels and you can't go wrong. I wonder if they've just stuck that wording in because someone challenged questions based on the fact that a 727 couldn't operate in certain airspace.

TACs - where information is missing from the ERC then it will be provided in the question i.e. Brisbane to Melbourne route, distance and track from Canty to ML will be provided.

UTR

Aviator777

UTR is correct, hilight the level in your Altitude Capability graph and the distances are usually given, however I have heard of 1 or 2 not being given, so a good set of dividers can save your hide ;)

From one who did it long, long ago .. and used to teach it ..

(a) get a good grounding in the basics .. a few texts around .. Worthington is as good as any

(b) the courses available (and I am out of touch these days) probably will emphasise the exams, and that's useful once (a) is addressed .. lots of past/sample papers gets the focus from (a) to the exam

(c) absolute imperative .. make yourself a schedule of mins/question to spread the time allocation according to the marks on offer .. no point in getting the first three questions done perfectly and leaving the rest not attempted ... and then, stick to the schedule .. if you haven't finished the question, leave it, go onto the next one .. and then come back at the end if you have some spare time ...

Silly question perhaps?
 

Hi all,

Perhaps this is a silly question but in regards to en route climb with landing gear extended (decision made to continue for whatever reason) where do I find the distance in ANM for the climb? Page 5-4 of the B727 POH only mentions 220 KIAS/.50M climb fuel as per normal and climb time plus 20%.

I'm using N. Higgins notes but I can't find it (I'll go searching for an example in the practice questions next but I really want to find a reference).

By rough calculation (220 KIAS compared to approx 300 KIAS) it would seem that it should be some factor of about 40% subtracted.:8

Ta, and good luck to you all,

FRQ CB

edit: I have now also checked ATC book with no joy but now that I think of it I suppose that the distance (ANM) will be the same but will simply take more time. (Is that simply the old L/D relationship coming into play?)

You're spot on - there is no factoring of the air distance, because it will take the same distance to climb, but just take longer to do it.