?? You learn (or did learn) basic en-route PNR at CPL. You learn Off-track PNR for ATPL exams. Hence my post.
I am confused about your reply, frankly. If I didn't make myself clear - this ATPL exam is supposed to produce a competent pilot, one who can successfully plan by themselves en-route, to a sucessful outcome. It appears that the exam is not guiding people to that standard. That means that the exam is faulty. I suspect that is because the people who know what they are doing are not setting the exam, but trying to teach students to meet an exam set by people who don't quite know what they are doing. Given the new Westwind report (which I was interested in as I used to fly the type), I wondered if I could still run up a graphical flight progress chart, for PNR and CP calculations: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GS...o=w897-h653-no |
Originally Posted by Checkboard
(Post 10018988)
?? You learn (or did learn) basic en-route PNR at CPL. You learn Off-track PNR for ATPL exams. Hence my post.
I am confused about your reply, frankly. If I didn't make myself clear - this ATPL exam is supposed to produce a competent pilot, one who can successfully plan by themselves en-route, to a sucessful outcome. It appears that the exam is not guiding people to that standard. That means that the exam is faulty. I suspect that is because the people who know what they are doing are not setting the exam, but trying to teach students to meet an exam set by people who don't quite know what they are doing. Given the new Westwind report (which I was interested in as I used to fly the type), I wondered if I could still run up a graphical flight progress chart, for PNR and CP calculations: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GS...o=w897-h653-no In relation to the Westward ditching, given the paucity of information that he had to work with (from memory a phone briefing re weather and no flight plan) it amazes me it got as far as it did. This is not to open up that discussion here but for a lot of that stuff (PNR, x/wind calls, DME arcs distance between radials etc.) I made up a cheat sheet that I laminated and put it into the Jepp binder I carried. With my memory there was no way I was going to memorise it all. |
Realize this is an ambiguous question but any thoughts would be appreciated. Wondering if anyone can give me a guide of study time. Say for example if I put in 4 hours a day for 4 weeks that should be adequate etc.
|
If you're a legend Braniac, 4 weeks may indeed be enough. But not for me.
Keep in mind that the fulltime Flight Planning course at Maroochydore is about 2 weeks long, with lots of homework each night, and many practise exams, using up most weekends. The instructor then recommends that you self-study for at least another two weeks, which includes a practise exam each day (which easily takes three hours each attempt). It's very intensive, with speed and accuracy requiring priority ;) |
Originally Posted by Runaway Gun
(Post 10037982)
If you're a legend Braniac, 4 weeks may indeed be enough. But not for me.
Keep in mind that the fulltime Flight Planning course at Maroochydore is about 2 weeks long, with lots of homework each night, and many practise exams, using up most weekends. The instructor then recommends that you self-study for at least another two weeks, which includes a practise exam each day (which easily takes three hours each attempt). It's very intensive, with speed and accuracy requiring priority ;) |
I was in the first class of Navy Signalman that didn't have to learn morse code or aircraft recognition. Many of our instructors claimed it was the beginning of the end and the loss of skills would be catastrophic. Well it wasn't. Within 6 months everyone was saying how great it was that morse code had been dropped.
The ATPL flight planning exam is way over the top and not relevant with regards to flight planning technology available today. Much like morse code. |
Originally Posted by pilotchute
(Post 10039062)
The ATPL flight planning exam is way over the top and not relevant with regards to flight planning technology available today.
At the end of the day, most jets still have performance data tables for climb, cruise, descent, 1inop, driftdown, gear down, etc. When you have the check or confirm when "Computer says noooo", all that FPL comes back to you - and you needed it. :) Would be much better is CASA was clear about exam tolerances and published a set of suitable SOPs - then we'd have something to follow - other than hearsay and tradition. |
Isa variation effect on tas
Hi have been reading both AFT and Rob Avery and now am pretty confused.
Rob Avery seems to mention all ISA deviations need to be rounded to multiples of 3 for both fuel flow AND TAS... however in the casa atpl booklet and from what I've learnt form AFT it only mentions to do this for the fuel flows.. what does everyone else do for the Tas? Thanks in advance |
Originally Posted by Starjkd
(Post 10117961)
Hi have been reading both AFT and Rob Avery and now am pretty confused.
Rob Avery seems to mention all ISA deviations need to be rounded to multiples of 3 for both fuel flow AND TAS... however in the casa atpl booklet and from what I've learnt form AFT it only mentions to do this for the fuel flows.. what does everyone else do for the Tas? Thanks in advance TAS= √(273-OAT°C)*39*M-1 E.g FL350, 0.82M, ISA+4 [√(273-50)]*(39*0.82)-1=477KTAS Rob's method uses the published TAS in the POH accounted for ISA deviation instead of using the formula. |
Yaw damp question
Hi all, long time viewer first time posting. For a yaw dampner inop flight do we consider the descent lets say we are at FL 310 and descend due yaw damp inop FL 280 do we consider this descent? it seems in some cases its required and some not. Thanks!
|
Originally Posted by B777lover
(Post 10494739)
Hi all, long time viewer first time posting. For a yaw dampner inop flight do we consider the descent lets say we are at FL 310 and descend due yaw damp inop FL 280 do we consider this descent? it seems in some cases its required and some not. Thanks!
|
Passed the exam recently. Here are some of my observations/tips:
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Originally Posted by Time Map Ground
(Post 10505229)
Passed the exam recently. Here are some of my observations/tips:
Awesome post thanks for taking the time to write that, will be sitting this exam in the next couple of months and those little tips I imagine will come in very handy :ok: |
The key to passing... Rob Avery
The best tip I can give you... Go to Rob Avery. He has absolutely nailed the formula for beating this exam. Sat in on his class earlier this year, honestly couldn't make this subject clearer. I think he's back in Bankstown this October.
|
WTF
Cannot for the life of me answer this question:
You are planning a flight from AUCKLAND (NZAA) to SYDNEY (YSSY). You have the following planning data: Maximum performance limited BRW AUCKLAND..... 85550 kg Maximum performance limited LW SYDNEY............. 71450 kg Basic Weight ............................................................ ... 47250 kg SYDNEY is SUITABLE. AUCKLAND is ACCEPTABLE, but may be considered SUITABLE if 60 minutes holding fuel is carried. Flight fuel for Normal Operations is 13950 kg. Flight fuel for Normal Operations to the NZAA-YSSY CP/1-INOP then One Engine Inoperative Operations (1-INOP) from the CP is 14900 kg. Flight fuel for Normal Operations to the NZAA-YSSY CP (Depressurised) then Depressurised from the CP is 15750 kg. The maximum payload for the flight is closest to -16410 kg 16500 kg 16250 kg 16160 kg 16100 kg The answer is 16160. If someone could explain how to get there I'll be forever in your debt. |
Nevermind, I figured it out :ok:
|
Originally Posted by Time Map Ground
(Post 10497331)
En-route descents are NOT required for any abnormal situation. This includes: DP, 1-INOP and Yaw Damper INOP. However, en-route descent planning is required for an 'air conditioning INOP' situation to either FL250 (east) or FL240 (west).
|
A lot of good tips already. Having spent more than a few sleepless nights for this exam, I though I’d put my two cents in now it’s all done. I passed well - first go - this was not expected as I’ve been a middle of the road student most of the way through my other exams . I had done a sh1tload of study though - far more than any other subject. What you need is to be able to look at a question and not have any doubt as to what it’s asking - being so time critical you need to do enough questions to just know where to start. Applying the correct fuel policy is vital - Be very careful if it’s asking for RAMP or BRW fuel. RTFQ - write down the pertinent info - you would be amazed how many times In the practice exams I planned the wrong direction or reversed tracks or added wind speed onto my track!! Slow down - there is time to check as long as you’ve got some speed to your process . (I did start to lose my marbles studying for this one - go fast and you lose accuracy , go slow and you don’t finish - it does all come together in time) By the time I sat the exam I could do 5 markers in about 20 minutes. I had 3 fivers in the exam and I was far more careful with tracks and winds etc and they took me just over 1 hour 10 mins to complete - but I got them right. There’s 30% in the bag. if you come across a question with a climb, one long leg and a descent, be extremely accurate with your GS. The penalty for a long leg with a rubbish GS calc is big enough to blow it. A question like that seems simple but it’s easy to butcher it. Id made a plan to dump really time consuming questions or any question that stumped me if It was getting tight (hold table for example) . Losing 2 marks to gain 10 minutes of faffing is well worth it. The exam was tricky timewise, but honestly was pretty straightforward - I’m sure that comes down to over preparing and I definitely got a question base that suited me (luck of the draw) but it wasn’t that bad.. One final thing . Don’t be brutalised by the practice exams - more than any other, this exam is the one you will get 50% or 90% - the questions are so heavily weighted . On the day I was prepared to fail and this did relax me (strange as that may sound) I knew I’d prepared well and just needed to give it a go. Doing the ATPLs was the most demoralising experience I’ve had in aviation - so impractical to current ops , such a drain of time , money and energy, but it just has to be done - my whining about it didn’t help anything - If you have the chance, do them all before you have a job, family and other commitments as the two year window is not that much if you get caught up on a subject . It is doable - if I can do it anyone can. Good luck. |
Congrats, well done -) You will find as you go thru yr career that most of the ATPL subjects where a waste of time! I wonder how many of us old codgers could pass any if the ATPL exams these days? Scary thought! -:) Flying a plane is the easy bit, doing the constant hairy fairy ground school days in an Airline job will put your feet to sleep trust me! ..lolol |
Originally Posted by Homesick-Angel
(Post 10647417)
A lot of good tips already. Having spent more than a few sleepless nights for this exam, I though I’d put my two cents in now it’s all done. I passed well - first go - this was not expected as I’ve been a middle of the road student most of the way through my other exams . I had done a sh1tload of study though - far more than any other subject. What you need is to be able to look at a question and not have any doubt as to what it’s asking - being so time critical you need to do enough questions to just know where to start. Applying the correct fuel policy is vital - Be very careful if it’s asking for RAMP or BRW fuel. RTFQ - write down the pertinent info - you would be amazed how many times In the practice exams I planned the wrong direction or reversed tracks or added wind speed onto my track!! Slow down - there is time to check as long as you’ve got some speed to your process . (I did start to lose my marbles studying for this one - go fast and you lose accuracy , go slow and you don’t finish - it does all come together in time) By the time I sat the exam I could do 5 markers in about 20 minutes. I had 3 fivers in the exam and I was far more careful with tracks and winds etc and they took me just over 1 hour 10 mins to complete - but I got them right. There’s 30% in the bag. if you come across a question with a climb, one long leg and a descent, be extremely accurate with your GS. The penalty for a long leg with a rubbish GS calc is big enough to blow it. A question like that seems simple but it’s easy to butcher it. Id made a plan to dump really time consuming questions or any question that stumped me if It was getting tight (hold table for example) . Losing 2 marks to gain 10 minutes of faffing is well worth it. The exam was tricky timewise, but honestly was pretty straightforward - I’m sure that comes down to over preparing and I definitely got a question base that suited me (luck of the draw) but it wasn’t that bad.. One final thing . Don’t be brutalised by the practice exams - more than any other, this exam is the one you will get 50% or 90% - the questions are so heavily weighted . On the day I was prepared to fail and this did relax me (strange as that may sound) I knew I’d prepared well and just needed to give it a go. Doing the ATPLs was the most demoralising experience I’ve had in aviation - so impractical to current ops , such a drain of time , money and energy, but it just has to be done - my whining about it didn’t help anything - If you have the chance, do them all before you have a job, family and other commitments as the two year window is not that much if you get caught up on a subject . It is doable - if I can do it anyone can. Good luck. |
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