another flood??
 

The whole idea of having thousands of desperate, broke young CPL holders fighting for a few jobs in GA, just so the airlines have a great big pool to pick from is horribly wrong.
It does enormous harm to GA, which is just as important to the country as the major airlines.
The airlines must keep running sensible cadet schemes, and give some commitment to the people who are dedicating their lives to flying big aircraft. Planning ahead is necessary, and the airlines that do this will do better than those that do not.
The traditional "obscene lottery" is just that-obscene.

Wow, way to make things personal. How's that chip on your shoulder going? I still don't see why you think CPL level pilot training should be subsidised by the government. Systems like the one in NZ and the one I'm advocating sure have their problems but at least it levels the playing field. If the option had been availalbe to me I'd have taken it in a shot.

If the things true, this is what I have been waiting for and thought would never come. I highly doubt those who say there will be an influx of idiots who have no commitment and decide to do it just because they now have the resources to do so. You may get some but I believe they will be far between, Lest We Forget that you still have to pay off everything in the end anyway! Anyone who can't see that coming has something to think about. And I also believe that if people are informed on the complete process of the scheme beforehand it will make the people who are doing it for kicks think again.

If your aware that you've just been given a 'suspended sentence' on the money so to speak your not going to rush at something you've thought little about just for the sake of it(especially when you have in excess of 50k knocking at your back door!)

And for those who are fair dinkum' people who have the commitment, passion and drive to get there then I say what a fantastic scheme although probably well overdue. They had to do something about the pilot shortage as many already have and I think its a step in the right direction. The pessimistic attitude of many here doesn't do anyone any favours especially the youngens.

Rant Over.

I completely agree.

What would you rather? No pilots, or a flood of them? Besides nobody knows what affect this is going to have anyway, its mere hearsay and nothing more. There just seems to be no pleasing anyone, there really doesn't

mate no chip on my shoulder at all but it looks like the opposite might be true.

if i extend your argument then the government shouldn't subsidise medical students either pal.

what about those who have the ability but not the money?

you keep saying you don't see why the gov should subsidise training but you never say why.this seems to me nothing more than a snobby attitude and you have to be a member of the club.

i'll ask again what about all the other students at uni that the gov subsidises?

Sorry but I'm not feeding this troll any more. I made my reason clear on page 2 and I'm not turning this thread into a 1 on 1 argument between people with clearly split ideologies.

Good luck to the wannabes that can take advantage of any new system that comes out, but read the fine print and make sure you're committed.

Summary:

• Commercial pilots that paid their own way don't want competition from perceived "freeloaders"; and
• Kids that don't have rich Daddies would appreciate financial help to achieve their dreams.

Now can we move on - or has this thread run it's course?

Tail Wheel

bout time! thats al i can say, looking farward to this!!

The Facts from DEEWR
 

Hasselhof has the fact straight.

I may or may not work with the customer service centre for DEEWR (was DEST). This legislation was drafted by the Howard Govt last year and was put into parliment prior to the changeover. It is still going through as it was supported by both sides, expect May but it depends on what else goes before the Senate.

VET FEE-Help is aimed at RTOs (Registered Training Orginasitions) that are running Diploma and above courses (can you say integrated CPL courses?).

It provides for UP TO $80,000 in funding to the institution to be paid back by the student once employeed and earning over $xx (I don't have those figures to hand but they're the same payback rates as HECS used to be and FEE-HELP is now).

I see a lot of 150hr CPL couses turning into $80,000 govt. financed propositions.

Personally, I think it's good. It's not a free ride, it's a manner in which a student can get a loan they would have had to work their balls off for in the past while also trying to complete their education.

N.b. While interest free, it is indexed to CPI.

Flog.

Tail wheel
 

Well said my friend, I don't think there is too much more to add..

A requirement for the schools to realistically promote flying training. Schools need to inform potential students of the realistic expected earnings in that first few years between flying school and achieving their ultimate goal. they need to be able to service the debt. Bearing in mind that if supply exceeds demand then there could be a reduction in what are already low incomes. Apart from that "' a big thumbs up"'

?????
 

And do you think they will do that? Flying schools are commercial businesses, and the more they train the more profit they make. There has been a surplus of commercial pilots for decades. The job situation has never been as good as it is now since the mid sixties. There really is no shortage of CPL holders now either. It is about how it should be. Qualified people can get jobs.
Will it stay this way? Yes, for as long as it takes to train more.
It has been said that airlines select about one out of every hundred applicants.
I wish all the trainees well, and I can understand how HECS etc would be a great help. But do your research first. Are those golden, skygod jobs really so easy to get?

As previously mentioned, it is all about management of the scheme...

Here in NZ, prior to about 1999-2000, you could only get the academic portion of an aviation degree funded via loans... around $3000 worth of course fees per year... but the actual flying (something like $60k over 3 years) was out of your own pocket...

Then they changed the rules and fully funded aviation... this created the concept of 'Sausage Factories'... where schools were just trying to enrol as many people as possible (cue outrageous claims about flying jets after 18 months etc. etc) so they could milk the student loan funding...

This resulted in large amounts of dropouts with large loans and nothing to show for it, as well as new 200Hr CPLs with large loans who had no chance of getting a job (unless they were flipping burgers/pumping gas)...

So they changed the rules again... now schools are given X number of student loan placements for a year and they have to be more picky as the placements are reassessed based on student performance... ie. get a bunch of muppets in one year who all drop out/fail... and your placements get reduced...

This is why the schools are now running interviews/assessments and taking the cream... they have to be more selective about who they take.

Works out quite well from what I hear... Keen, dedicated and passionate people now have access to aviation regardless of personal circumstance...

Yes
 

This is the sort of thing we need, but the airlines should be involved in both the assessment and the financing. They should also be assessing the numbers they are likely to need.

Im pretty sure at the numbers they will need and it aint pretty. Something like 250 a year for at least the next 6

250?
 

Rex are saying their cadet scheme will be expanded to train 300 per year.

Progress - of a sort
 

Bit of a bump here but I got some more info today.

The VET-FEE-HELP scheme is still waiting to be ratified. As an RTO you can now register your interest with DEWA to find out more later.

Cheers,
Flog.

this scheme would be at a perfect time for me, with me wanting to do my training pretty hard next year! (but don't have the monies)

Flog can you please explain what DEWA stands for. Stupid question I know...

would this apply to rotary wing training as well?

I am going to go for "Bachelor of Aviation" at Swinburne next year, hopefully, anyway can I put the Flight training on HECS (in 2009), YES OR NO (no mabyes)

I may have missed the boat (plane) on this thread, but as one of the lucky ones to get into this years cadetship with Qantas which is covered under FEE-HELP (and as I understand it this is the same way the proposed scheme will run) I can tell you that getting the FEE-HELP loan is in no ways an open door. The course I am doing costs more than the $80-odd-thousand you get as a loan from the gov, so the way I see it is those wanting to take up this option will still need to come up with a substantial amount of money off their own bat just to complete their course anyway. And although it is 'interest free' they still apply a 20% 'loan fee' so and $80K loan turns into $96K.
Either way, its a step closer for many and I'm all for it.
Good luck to all.

by the look of things its leaning towards yes. Although dont you already have to be a cadet with an airline to access this funding through swinburne?

Hmm, wonder if it will pay for an IFR reissue??:confused:

Fat chance, methinks!:sad:

as far as i'm aware stallsandspins, its only the QF cadetship for the moment.

From the DEEWR Website confirming all this...
 

http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/train...lp/default.htm

I think I called it DEWA earlier - it's DEEWR (Dept. Education, Employment and Workplace Relations), used to be DEST (Dept. Education, Science and Training)

Anyway - below in summary from the Govt. site. :ok:

-----
VET FEE-HELP is an extension of the Higher Education’s income contingent loan scheme, FEE-HELP. The VET FEE-HELP loan scheme is being introduced to the Vocational Education and Training (VET) sector.

Introduction



VET FEE-HELP is an income contingent loan scheme for the Vocational Education and Training (VET) sector that is part of the Higher Education Loan Program (HELP). It is an extension of the higher education loan scheme FEE-HELP arrangements.
VET FEE-HELP is being introduced to the VET sector in 2008. Over the next four years, it is expected that around $261 million in loans will be issued.
VET FEE-HELP will assist eligible full fee-paying students who are enrolled in one of the following VET accredited courses through a VET provider (an RTO approved to offer VET FEE-HELP to its students) to pay for all or part of their tuition fees:

• Diploma*
• Advanced Diploma*
• Graduate Certificate
• Graduate Diploma

* with a credit towards a higher education award
Legislative amendments to the Higher Education Support Act 2003 (HESA) received Royal Assent on 20 March 2008. These amendments allow for the legislative guidelines for VET FEE-HELP to be approved. The legislative guidelines will be registered on the Federal Register of Legislative Instruments (FRLI) before being approved by Parliament. VET FEE-HELP is expected to become available during the second half of 2008.

I can confirm the rumour. Today I went to a career expo and saw a representative for aerospace aviation based at bankstown airport. She informed me that as of next month, the full time training course can be financed with HECS. This will most probably through FEE-HELP?

Speedbird 9

Though I initially supported the idea, I think fee help has the capability to be a rather bad idea. Whilst for genuine candidates its great, the number of drop dead morons who will seize this as an opportunity to just fly around and waste a spectacular amount of money after they leave school might be higher than anyones expectations.

I think to qualify for this fee help you should need to pass some sort of aptitude testing, or need to qualify for allocated fee help places in a similar vein to that of any reputable University.

Of course you may already have to, I wasn't really paying attention.

already studying path
 

This is interesting news!

Generally what do you some of you think the process and turn around time will be in the actual schools getting approval and implementation and what if training has has already started as in my case? will it be still viable?

I am currently doing a DOA at my local school (self funded) and although I am quite determined to pass it either way i go about it, i would certainly enjoy having this sought of assistance to free up the rather rapid fund consumption that is learning to fly until industry employed....

Seems a little bit more productive than HECS to become an artist :p

so are any victorian schools providing training under this scheme?

anybody want to sell me an AOC for a flying school?

Anybody really want to become a pilot anymore?:ooh:

I do, and I'll do it with or without HECS

I'm following SpeedBird 9's response!

Yes, I'll do it, With or Without HECS...
However, with HECS will mean I could do it in a much shorter time!

I did it without HECS.

Can the tax office loan me $80,000 cash, and I'll pay it back to them via HECS?

HECS v VET-FEE-HELP
 

I don't know about the operation of either of these schemes but ...

<pedant mode on>

HECS is aimed at university (degree) courses

VET-FEE-HELP is aimed at vocational (certificate / diploma) courses

<pedant mode off>


They probably operate in a similar manner but will be just different enough that looking up the details of HECS may send you down the wrong path.

regards
layman

CPL
 

A CPL is not a magic thing that gets you into an airline.
I hope we do not get another large "pool" of desparate CPL holders fighting for a few jobs in GA and degrading the industry, We then have geniune charter operators being undercut by flying schools moving in and selling ICUS to wannabies on charter flights.
The MPL is the proper way to go, so airline wannabies stay in the airline system and do not get misled into GA jobs they don't want. (if they can get one)
Both airlines and GA will benefit from the MPL.
People who want an airline job should make contact with an airline ASAP BEFORE spending lots of time and money on training.

In what way? and for what purpose?
PM me if you like :ok:

Contact an airline before training, knowing the bare minimum(nothing), why????? Will they fund it for me?