ASL pass rates?
 

Anyone know why ASL (Aviation Services Limited) has stopped publishing their pass rates since March 2007? I thought they had to be accountable in these areas since the CAA has given them a monopoly? Also what keeps the examiners standardised in their "Objectivity"?

The inability to understand people speaking Korean?

http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/annu.../appendix3.htm



Flight planning and systems still the biggest hurdles for the ATPL

Good lord!!! Have they been let lose in Aus now too?

As for the CAA stats, I'd be interested too. There seems to be a huge number of failures from one particular testing officer at the moment.

Apologies I see you were posting from NZ. Australian exams are administered by Assessment Services Limited (ASL) but all the exams are CASA material.

Heya Bombs. Looks like CASA and Assessment Services Ltd is a lot more open than our lot anyway!

Cloud clutter.
I guess the rogue examiner has prompted this post. It does seem unfair that the region has to suffer just because one examiner dosnt know his P of F. (Or maybe all the JAFA's really are that slow). Either way I think ASL needs to be kept accountable and publish their results... breaking them down into regional (or examiner) pass results.

What does everyone else think?

Yes, I would be interested in seeing a few of 'services limited' stats to see whats what....

We had a student fail his CPL just before Xmas for some very bizzare reasons on groundwork. Re-sat it today after minimal revision and the testing officer (vastly more experienced than the previous testing officer) said the candidate did very well indeed..... So where exactly are the goal posts meant to be? And could we please get all officers on the same song sheet before more people end up blowing 500 - 1000 slides (+ the aircraft) failing tests unnecessarily. :confused:


XRNZAF

I am afraid it is a losing battle fighting ASL on issues of consistancy. I provided many examples of differing flight tests to ASL, only to be told by the then chief of asl 'i can't comment as I dont have the details'. Just complete denial.

The older guys who have been with ASL for a while are great - fair and CONSISTANT!! Alot remains to be said about the current North/Waikato guy.

Good luck to those who continue to battle!

Possibly, but surely the Mooloos aren't :}

I agree, there needs to be total disclosure by ASL of flight test pass rates from all regions, and some explanation given for what I'm picking would be a huge variance.

Do we have some law akin to the US freedom of information act? Surely statistical information held by a government agency should be freely available?

I may just have to get onto this one, it's been pissing me off for a while now...

In the mean time, how do we maintain altitude in a max rate turn? With elevator I here you say? :rolleyes:

"In the mean time, how do we maintain altitude in a max rate turn? With elevator I here you say? :rolleyes: "

Yeeees, I remember hearing that little gem of knowledge a while back too.... If I didn't know better I'd say the dude is failing people purely for the sake of it in order to make a name for himself. Has to catch up with him sooner or later you would hope???

Ha Ha, Like you cloud i to have been watchin this situation develop with continuing interest/disgust. I cant believe he wasn't pulled out of testing within the first few months. But then again ASL is a monopoly company, masters at providing poor service!! more fails = more money. (or is that cynical?)

Having flown with this gentleman, and knowing a few others that have also been involved with teaching him in the past, we really were quite shocked at his appointment. His flying is below average at best, airmanship poor and yes the P of F. Would be nice if he could just get back to basics with the P of F Nobody doing this flying s@#t is interested in the 5 possible ways lift can be produced, just 1 is enough. And we have all heard the horror stories of his other out of left field questioning.

He has spent a long time in the New Zealand GA scene, and lets face it has no real experience to draw on, maybe no "Mana". In my opinion a testing officer should have seen it all, done it all to be able to test practically. This guy is by no means practical and we believe covers up his avg flying ability with theoretical cra#p.

There now I've got it off my chest as well. But maybe others with there experiences could document them in this forum and then send it off to ASL with all the other letters that go in about him :ugh: Where is the accountability? when will ASL be transparent so everyone can see it for what it is?http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons//icon8.gif

Well ladies and gents, please feel free to join my campaign

[email protected]

I've put the wheels in motion, but we need numbers. I'm not even sure why I care, it doesn't affect me directly, just hate hearing about this sort of injustice.

In the mean time, here's another little 'gem of knowledge':

Q. Why do we get a reduction in performance after an engine failure in a multi engine aircraft?

A. Because we have lost 50% of our thrust and had an approx 30% increase in drag.

:confused: No, it's got nothing to do with thrust, it's purely due to the increase in drag. :ok:

Cloud cutter - I must surely know you as the examples you have given in your above posts were exactly the ones I was thinking of when typing my first post in this thread!

I have exchanged many an email with Brian Curruthers and Graham Guy during my time as an instructor, but got pretty much no where.

I have heard stories about when DH was doing his multi rating!

You surely do my friend. Right, I'm off for a slice of cake ;)

haha cloud, why stop at just one piece!

Alrightie.
Its a rainy afternoon I might see if I get a reply from this complaint...

"To the General Manager.

Could you please provide the pass rates for the examinations you do. They have not been updated for over a year on your website. Also please provide the pass rates for each examiner to show some transparency in your standardisation between examiners.
Thanks"

Lets see if I get a reply like they promise on their web site. :ugh:

Anyone keen to publish their horror stories on ASL theroy exams? I know a couple, just not really newsworthy...

Don't get me started on their theory exams :ugh: .. heaven forbid you get to keep the candidate question papers for fear of having hard evidence of their incompetence.

Don't get me started on ASL exam questions!

(Nav X-Track Question)

D1 = D2 = 30nm, what is heading must you turn to...

Didn't think that simultaneous equations were a prerequisite! :ugh:

(Aerody)

Apparently increasing speed at a constant angle of bank does not reduce your rate of turn...

(Performace)

Apparently frost on your airframe does not increase your TOD, nore have an affect on stall speed! :}


So I guess next time I want to take off, I know that frost won't have any affect, and when doing an instrument approach I will be able to firewall the throttle and still come out of the turn at exactly the same time, and I only need 1 distance from a fix to work out my cross track error! :ugh::}:ugh::}:ugh:

Meh, my question was more to do with their administration.

The worst one in my experience is ringing up and asking for a change of sitting date/time, then not being informed that the change is not available until after the original sitting, and being required to pay a new exam fee to sit the same exam! Their reason for not offering the exam for free/at a reduced price was that they "can't give exams away for free". I wasn't asking for an exam for free, I just wanted to change the time of the original, and I would have been happy to pay a transfer fee!

My other one was back in the day of PPL nav. The chart they provided was so distorted that the grid lines were noticably curved, with white areas in the corners of the chart, where the image had been distorted away. Try measuring an angle off a curved line with a square protractor accurately!

Great job ASL...

:ugh:

scorched - have you heard back from ASL with the info you asked for?

i suspect not!

With regard to ASL here in Aus, I missed an exam as my daughter was in hospital with pneumonia, I called them a couple of hours before the exam and even if I provided a medical certificate they would still charge me full price for re sitting as I was not the one who was sick.

Nice to see the money hungry Bas... don't give a toss about anyone except their bottom line.

ASL NZ.

Back in the days that I did my exams I wanted priority marking. That cost $30,- extra.

I had no problem with that. Until……

The lady on the phone from ASL told me on one off the many conversations I had with them regarding there English rather than aviation knowledge test, that all the papers are getting marked when they come in. but the once who pay 30,- extra just get there results released like 2 days sooner. :ugh::ugh:

Now that severely enjoys me!!

My opinion about ASL?? :mad::mad:

sit my english exam?

nah not again, i sat mine 12 years ago before i was granted entery in to this part off the world. besides i did run the post over with the spelling chek thingy and it didnt even pick all those things up so i am not to worried lol.
thanks for your lesson in englisch mate

6080ft and anyone else who wants to know.
The answer is NO I havn't herd back from ASL.. as we suspected.
I am just thinking about what to do next.. Any suggestions?
I don't want to ignore it cause it is something that affects the NZ aviation industry in such a big way and ASL needs to be accountable for that.

Do Member of Parliaments (MP) have any say (or care?).

Scorched - yes i would have been very surprised if you did hear back from them. I battled with them for years over a variety of issues, mainly those arising from some questionable flight tests. I have no idea what to do next, as their standard line is, an ASL flight test is an ASL flight test.
Perhaps talk to various CFI's to see what they have to say and see if they are prepared to offer advice. There are many in the northern region who would no doubt have something to say!
Do you know whats happening with DW, I heard there was a bit of a fuss going down at the moment. Could be just rumour tho.

I would be keen to hear how you get on!

Radical Measures:
 

Hit em where it hurts:

Revenue:

Notify the Minister as a group, that you are giving them a limited time frame to sort it out:

Get three or Four A cats to go to Aussie, utilise the TTRMA, get the Aussie equivilant to your existing NZ qual:

Obtain Aussie Flt Testing privillages, you will benifit on both shores!

Then contract all your teaching material from a school in Aussie:

Then teach and Issue Australian licences, and use the TTRMA back wards to get NZ Quals issued:

Kiwi's, just bend over and take it, have done for years:

Stand up and hit them where it hurts.

In the Pocket.

ASL and most dept people are a pack of useless, bottom feeding, self serving individuals that have prostituted their love for aviation in the need for personal recognition, and gathering revenue for the Dept/ASL:

Then the Minister will forgo the TTRMA agreement, but think of the political Shiiiite storm you could create:

But Nah will never happen, my fellow kiwi's will just invest more heavily in KY, or baby Oil, just so as too reduce the hurt that little bit!

What am I, realist, Cynic, stirrer,or with the wrong attitude?

Chr's
H/Snort

I hear there has been a recent resignation at ASL - one of the more senior people so perhaps the email address given previously will not be of much use shortly. Rumour has it another long-term employee is looking elsewhere as well...

That said it's easy to be hard on ASL, they certainly do have their problems, but what do you do to make it better? How can one more objectively assess a persons competence to fly? The nature of the test means that it's subject to a certain amount of, well, subjectiveness. Human nature being what it is one person is likely to view a certain situation, maneuver or whatever differently to another. It's unrealistic to expect just one person to conduct all the NZ tests (ensuring some degree of consistency notwithstanding bad hair days or similar :}) given the present demand so just how do you deal with it? I've no answer - I'm not sure there is one - but perhaps a reasonable round-house discussion could result in some improvments here, how about some constructive comments people?

On the other hand I'm disappointed to hear that they appear to be witholding information. If it's bad (for them) then so be it, they should be honest, front up with it and deal with the problem. As I understand it ASL is 'owned' by the industry (although I'm not totally sure what that means) so the industry, not parliament, should be the directors of what/how ASL deals with things. Perhaps someone with a greater understanding of the ownership and control path of ASL could assist here so that any comments people have may be properly directed to the right person(s).

Another possibility exists of course - I don't think ASL are a mandated monopoly. In other words it is technicially possible (I think?) for another organisation(s) to seek CAA approval and provide examination services. There's nothing like a bit of competition for cleaning up ones act.

I see also some comments on the theory exams, I understand ASL's reasoning for not returning the papers - they use standard test q & a's - but I don't necessarily agree with them. If you have sat a test then you are entitled to the full thing in return - so that you may properly assess their competence as well as them assessing yours. I'm not sure that I agree with standard multi-guess tests either, then again they (theoretically) ensure a greater degree of consistency - so one is damned if one does and damned if one doesn't (sigh!).

FP.

good on you scorched, sounds like someone maybe winning their battle with ASL. I had heard DW is not testing at the moment, is this true?