Why Do We Allow Gyrocopters to Keep Flying?
 

Another person dead after an accident in Echuca and another person with severe burns.

It's known that these aircraft can get into unrecoverable trouble if their rotor unloads, why do we permit them to keep flying?

Same reason we continue to let Airbus aircraft fly I guess. :}


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I haven't flown one myself (not bloody likely to either :} ) but I understand they are effectively, in autorotation the whole time?

Hmmmmm.

I've flown em. safer than your average GA aircraft. you really have to try to hurt yourself in one............. although, as long as people are in the air, some will manage to fall from it, regardless of the safety measures put in place.
I might add that the majority of the people that fly this type of aircraft are from the recreational type of flying background and have minimal flying time and a completely different training environment than that of the GA industry. could be a pilot thing and not an aircraft thing. I managed to fly several of these machines before I truly understood aerodynamics or even what the term AoA was............ glad I learned about it in real aeroplane school before I got kilt.

Why Do We Allow Gyrocopters to Keep Flying?

For the same reason we allow you to keep on posting on PPrune! Its a free country.
The Comet.

Lots of people get themselves killed in fixed wing (of all types) and other rotorcraft.

Aviation of any type is very unforgiving of mistakes, oversights, errors and failures. Any of these will get you killed. Make sure you avoid these things, and aviation is quite safe. My brother in law killed himself in a gyro by flying into a powerline, as has many other rotor and fixed wing pilots. He made a mistake and it killed him. There are blokes out this way that operate gyrocopters that have in excess of 20,000 hours with only minor incidents.
If you are going to ban gyrocopters to stop people being killed, you have to keep going and ban all aircraft. All forms of transport are inherently unsafe.

PF
'Same reason we continue to let Airbus aircraft fly I guess'..............................
or Boeing aircraft I suppose

Can we also ban motor bikes, rugby, beer and sex?

Oops - too late. The Missus beat you to it. :\

Hahahahaha!! Coffee all over my monitor... :\

Around my part of the world there are quite a lot of Gyro's flown by QF drivers for fun........so not all are RAA types. Maybe those who get into trouble are the less educated/experienced.

Think you might find that some things like the Carter Copter are of a similar design. See how that goes in the future!

J

Educated???
 

Yes. You peasants should all get a degree in gyrocopting from one of those jolly good uni places.
Then you too could have simultaneous leaks developing from both fuel tanks. A bit like those "simultaneous double engine failures."

Hey bushy......

Not sure about the cheap shot about What are you suggesting? It did not happen that way?

As for educated/experienced and jolly good uni places, who mentioned anything about universities? I was refferring to educated and experienced in the flight handling of Gyro's. I dare say some are considerably more than others. I am not one bit, but I see some around here that are and seem to do quite ok with them.

Maybe I just did not get the humour ......:uhoh:

J:ok:

Gyro's are great machines and if you had been in one or associated with them you'd realise the fun that can be experienced in them, but not necessarily dangerous fun in the right hands. Limitations in my mind are slow speed, training and fuel burn. They are a little thirsty.

Coincidentally I took these about an hour ago...

Compare the Gyro quality and design to the famous Deathranger... Admittedly the air filter is probably due for replacement.


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Instructor has a checked history
 

My condolences go to the family of the deceased and to the Instructor’s family who are now faced with what will be a very long and painful battle of healing and then re-living it during the Coroner’s inquest.

I have to agree with a couple of the previous posts about how safe they are. Used to think they were dangerous until I went for a ride in one, it was OK but not for me. It does come back to the cowboy attitude of some these pilots.

Now a little birdie tells me that the Australian Sports Rotorcraft Association (the governing body) were considering reviewing and changing the way they conduct training due to the 5 fatalities(and now 6) gyros have had in the previous 12months. That’s a lot for such a small group of enthusiasts!

As for the Instructor in question, it was a matter of time. Loved to show off for his Aeroclub old boy mates. Lost his licence for putting on an impromptu airshow at an air rally which he took off pointing straight at the crowd a few years back. After losing his licence continued to fly and train people before CASA hit him again. The list goes on and on!

And its not hearsay, I was a witness. Before someone ask why I didn’t speak up, I did have my say and I am still be harassed for it! This is just like the Nick Coustin/Bathurst strikemaster crash all over again.

MM

Wizard of Auz you wouldn't have a clue:

No doubt they are generally gay, black and female as well.

Why don't you wait for the investigation?

MJH

That is a nice looking machine triple X, my only concern is (what looks like from the pic) a jerry can strapped onto the side, is that the fuel tank?:eek:
What type is it X? I can't seem to find any on Google...

I myself would love to fly one of these machines, especially an RAF 2000! :ok:

As far as safety goes, I suspect it is all about attitude! There are ways to minimse the safety risk at all levels of aviation, but it takes a lot of discipline, even more so when parts of the sport are largely self regulated.

Not sure what it is exactly Howard, but if you gave the guys at Phillip Island Helicopters a call they could tell you. Note: It's not theirs, it's just in a hangar there. The owner has 4 x Gyro's onsite in the hangar there.

The instructor Paul Bruty is one of the worlds best Gyro pilots. Has been flying them since a very young age and pilots come from all around the world for his knowledge. He is in a bad way at the Alfred Hospital as we speek. Lets hope he pulls thru. He is one of the good guys.

Yes, we all hope Paul recovers okay.
I never flew with him - just one look at the condition of his RAF2000 a few years back was enuff for me to say "ahh... no thanks...." I'm not sure what frightened me the most - the assorted hardware in assorted places holding assorted junk on all over the ship, or the starter battery held in by just an old ocky strap - just in front of the propeller......:eek:

I find that last post a little tasteless considering it's your first post. Seems that if you want to slag someone off here you just create a new username and post away with no credibility.

MR. Mere Mortal - you wrote:

"After losing his licence continued to fly and train people before CASA hit him again."

Isn't it fact that the instructor was with his first student after starting an instructing business having manufactured gyros for some time prior?

Go get em XXX - Lets hope the familys are not reading some of the nonsense posted here.

"Isn't it fact that the instructor was with his first student after starting an instructing business having manufactured gyros for some time prior?"
VH - XXX, why don't you get your facts straight before going on the defensive.
He has been instructing for 20 odd years. Find attached the newspaper article about this "very safe pilot".

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I hope it was nothing more than a tragic training accident and not Paul showing off.

MM

Mere Mortal (and others!) - how about you ease up on the speculation.

From reports from those present it does not sound like any showing off was involved - just a high rate of descent with no flare.

You might be right, but you might be wrong. Consider how hurtful your comments may be - ESPECIALLY if you are wrong!

Sometimes knowing when to hold your tongue is just as important as knowing when to speak up........

Actually old mate........ I do have a clue. you should reserve your comments until you develop one. as for the second part of your comment............grow up clown.

I have always been a little curious about Gyros.

Recently, one of my clients (a 1950's 22 Sqn pilot) scared himself in his Gyro. He sold it to one of my (more adventurous) ultralight students, who proceeded to get lessons in it.

I dunno what happened but but $17,000 and 3 months in hospital down the track, the "new" owner of the now decidedly "used" gyro is walking again... but will never fly again due to the damage to his spine.

:uhoh:

Decide for yourself but MY curiosity has evaporated.

Interesting MM, but totally unrelated. Flying low over an air rally when solo and forgetting to renew your rego once off hardly puts students lives at risk and demonstrates his years of rule breaches!

The local paper article and locals said he WASN'T an instructor until recently and that this was one of his first if not the first student after his newly started business was up and running. Who's got it right?

Hi all, first post for me, i'll keep it uncontentious I promise....

"The local paper article and locals said he WASN'T an instructor until recently and that this was one of his first if not the first student after his newly started business was up and running. Who's got it right?"

I don't know anything about the accident, but I do know that Paul Bruty came instructing here in WA years ago and was highly regarded, so I somehow doubt the 'locals' have the right end of the stick. I had a brief flirtation with the idea of a Gyro back in the mid 90's, and Paul was very helpful and informative. I didn't go that route in the end, but he came across as a man who knew more than a little about his subject.


EDIT - fixed spelling mistake

Update on Paul Bruty's condition;
 

To whom it may concern;

Latest news on Paul's recovery.
Paul is improving steadily and they are now starting to talk about taking him out of intensive care and transferring him to the burns ward. That’s a positive step. He has been conscious for quite some time but sleeps a lot due to the pain killers needed when dressings are being done – and there are some dressings every day. He can hear us and respond with a nod or shake of the head but hasn’t been able to speak because of the “trachie” which has been in place since the accident. The type he has now was put in place some weeks ago but we’re hoping that it won’t be long before he’ll be able to do without that.

This report is from Paul's wife Eril, and is lifted from the Rotary Forum.

Thanks for the update. Much appreciated

risk
 

.............many years ago (others may remember) I saw a gyro copter crash at Penfield (sunbury, vic) after what I believe was part of the wooden prop going thru the rotor disc, bad luck to some degree for sure & maybe some maintenance issues as well but the point here is that if you fly anything at all then you take a risk, some risks are higher than others (Gyro's would have to be a high risk machine) & it's all about 'acceptable risk' I believe.
Paul's unfortunate accident has at least brought to the attention of these high risk machines. I hope we see that as a possitive so we can all learn & make an informed decision to fly or not to fly something that looks like Noah made it before the ARK !:)
.
Recover quickly Paul.


CW

Capt Wally, I saw the same accident at Penfield you speak of. The pilot of the gyro had repaired !! the (second hand) prop by re attaching the last 4-6 inches of one blade with ARALDITE. I kid you not. Along with a colleague I 'counselled' the operator/driver (definately not a pilot of worth) regarding the wisdom and dangers of the repair. We were assured that it was for taxi practice and short low hops down the runway. We even told him that was stupid and dangerous and not to attempt any sort of flight.

He ignored our warnings and went flying. His so encouraging 'mates' hid behind the hanger and threw up leaving myself and a couple of others to go and confirm the obvious result of tumbling in from about 600 feet.

The Araldite repair had failed and flung the tip through the rotor blade attach point shearing it off. Gravity did the rest.

Parts of the Coronial were almost as farcical as well.

tipsy.
:=

....okay 'tipsy2' tnxs for the update. I can't remember the exact facts but what I said was along those lines. I didn't attend the crash scene you obviously had a lot more input to the events of the day than myself.
You probably also remember the home design plane that crashed in the paddock opposite Penfield. The pilots name escapes me but was it 'megeti' or something like that?, foreign guy. It was his own design I think, he to came to an abrupt end sadly. I believe he was testing the crafts stalling abilities(or lack thereof) & hit a rocky outcrop without the use of any protective head gear. (memory fading now, mine that is !)Anyway sounds like you tried to make him see good sense & that's about all you could do, at the end of the day it's the pilots (if he could be called that) decision to go against all common sense.

CW

Capt Wally, now you are referring to Charles Ligetti and his "Stratos". What a pitch unstable beast that was, scared the hell out of the Test Pilot (known as 045) trying to sort it out.

Some time after Charles' accident (1987) in aircraft No2, the then BASI did some investigative test flying of the No1 aircraft at Mangalore. That ended very untidily and nearly killed a respected ex RAAF Test Pilot who was with BASI at the time.

According to Google, Charles' son Ron is/was trying to get the Stratos up and running again. I genuinely wish him luck.

tipsy
:)

And just when you thought it was safe on the streets:uhoh:

Sunfish

Good idea mate. Let's ban cars, motor bikes etc., etc. They are all lethal in the wrong hands.

I think we should ban pprune too. Let's ban everything!

gyros are only as safe as the pilot is - abit like helicopters and aeroplanes - if you fly safe - then safe it is - maintain your arse and it will keep you going :D:rolleyes:

Random????

Isn't this Australia?

Haven't they been banned already?

It's the nanny state after all....:ugh:

Any flying machine in the wrong hands, and sometimes right hands can end badly.

Unloading the rotor system in one of these has the same effect as doing the same in a R22/R44/ Jetbox. Negative G is something to be avoided for most chopper pilots.

Ban autogyros?

Better not say that to this 96 year old gentleman


A true amd very safe gentleman in every sense.