FISH
 

Gotta nominate Fish :yuk: formerly Townsville TWR/APP
dunno where he's at these days?
"cleared visual approach via cold rock, macka's and the seaview drivethrough"
"clear visual approach, cleared to land any runway" (I was 30 dme at the time)
Legend :ok:

I don't get you guys.:confused:

One thread your moaning because we reduce your track miles and it blows your descent plan out the window, and the next thread the guy that gives you direct to base is the best guy out there?????:yuk:

I give up. :ugh::ugh:

The one time i tried to do this, to a C402, yes a C402, at 20nm leaving A040, I offered the straight in runway, the pilot replied " i need the track miles to get down"..........

fer crying out loud!
I blame the flight schools and their masturbationist instructers.
No one else.

I didn't know this forum was self censoring.

me
 

Sorry, but London Heathrow makes the rest of the world, especiallly Oz, look like amateurs, and I'm not a Pom......:D

im a bit biased but...

The current guys in Alice Tower do a top job without a radar. With tourist season in full swing and all manner of types coming through they do a damn good job in whipping everyone into shape. I'm sure a radar would be welcomed though- by pilots especially!

Chuck also gets a vote from me.

Knackers mate - I'm still waiting for you to sort out the Perth SIDs and STARs, seeing as your the resident expert on airspace in the mighty West.

Are you doing much "hands on" air trafficing these days?

Cheers GB

I didn't fly in Sydney airspace long enough to form an opinion.

Cairns controllers were great though. Sala on approach. No one can talk that fast!! I do remember "armagedon" though. :E

There was/is an American controller up there. Pure genius.

Marcus gets a vote too.

Nowadays I'd say the controllers at Schipol are the best. London ATC are very good but they talk too much with their headings etc. (If the STARS and SIDS were designed more efficiently they could just let us get on with it!!)

The guy who acts as 'ringmaster' at Avalon Air Show is pretty impressive . . . I don't know the personalities, but I believe he also runs the tower at Essendon. He is polite, courteous, informative, predictive and doesn't take any cr@p from anyone!

Been a while since I have been there but Alice Tower - particularly 'Pep'
Always helpful and NO RADAR.

Dubya,

No, just an example of a stupid ATC.

Why put us all in that bucket?

If you truly were once TWR/ENR/APP rated you'd surely know that there are some that get it and some that don't (hopefully those who don't are getting rarer). Just like when a pilot asks for high speed descent when told to expect a 250K descent while being vectored in the cruise at minimum speed for sequencing, they are out there... Then there are those who cheat on IAS instructions and get annoyed when vectored cause they are too hot.

MAESTRO has helped a lot with sequencing, but it's still only in BN, ML and SY; it reserves you a slot effectively and gives you some sort of stability in that slot within 160NM or so; but things change. Going to SY for example, CB departures stuff up that stability cause they 'push in', same as WLM, BTH, ORG turbos etc. (or they get pushed back) Then there are go-a-rounds, medical, wx changes etc. that throw the whole thing out. Nothing is as insecure as a well established sequence, you should know that being ex ATC.

Get off your soapbox Coral!

The attitude of "superiority" is on both sides of the fence :rolleyes:

As was mentioned in another thread:

"we wouldn't be down here if they weren't up there!"

As for the money, well apart from the endorsement fee upfront, you might be surprised to know that 73 crews with VB start on about 20k more than a new rated ATC!

Not sure what the progression is like though

Please excuse a Pom intruding here, but I'm slightly confused as to why some flight crew seem to think that the ability to clear someone for a visual approach from 100 miles away, or clear someone to land from 30 miles away, makes them 'good' ATC.

Reddo, unfortunately the SIDS (and yes, all of us in ATC know they could be far more efficient too) aren't going to change, as they're all following minimum noise routes. Also, the STARS aren't going to move either, unless the whole of the London TMA route structure is changed, as is rumoured to happen when we get a third runway. So until then, we're forced to turn you left and right and left again to fit you in the airspace. :(

I personally dont think that - although some blokes seem to want it all the time. Therein lies the problem - some guys want to come belting in, all to save what 1 or 2 minutes?

Essentially getting a visual approach absolves the controller of any responsibility doesnt it? Might aswell use them for the service they are their to provide and get paid for . (Assuming your not being farked around, although other than that female Perth ATCer I dont think they do it intentionally)

I would like to be left alone to do my own thing, not have to worry about CTA steps, other traffic, or Company SOPS etc - but as that is unreasonable, I would like to be able to plug into the FMC the STAR, and not get speed up, slowed down, held up and the track shortened at the last minute.

Gonzo, my recent experience of London trafficers is that they are the best in the world. Considering the amount of traffic, I'm amazed how expeditiously we have been processed - all without the heart rate rising one beat.

I agree that the routing of SIDs and STARs will not change because of political considerations, however, some tweaking of the speeds can be done to allow us to more effectively manage energy during descent (thus saving fuel and reducing noise) whilst still allowing you guys to get the sequencing right (I'm talking about airports in general - not a specific airport). GB

blueloo,

In the UK we still have to provide separation between you on a visual approach, and the one behind you. Of course, not knowing how tight/wide you going to turn in, and what speed you'll do, makes it rather more complicated to get the correct spacing behind you. I've only ever worked at LHR tower, and to be honest the traffic is constant enough so that radar vectors with speed control mean that my Radar colleagues are hitting 2.5 miles constantly on approach. A few years ago a very expensive tool called Final Approach Spacing Tool (FAST) was developed which in essence told the final director when to turn an aircraft on to base and then again on to a closing heading, and what heading were needed (taking into account vortex spacing, and winds aloft). The performance never matched that of the usual 'human' method of experience and judgement.

GB, can you expand on your post? Although as I say I only work the Tower, I'd be interested in how you think we can perhaps improve the service.:ok:

This thread was going well.

40+ posts and the inevatable pissing contest ensues....Pity:ugh:

Gonzo,

Yes, it's such a pity that our hands are tied because of politics etc.

I went to the LATC meet and greet ATC day at West Drayton last year. What a fantastic day it was. Talk about an eye opener! It was well worth it and I do recommend any pilot to visit a busy ATC centre just to see how the ATCers manage to sort us out, listen to the joke running around the ops room and remember which pub the watch is going to post shift. :ok:

Unfortunately, 3 weeks after the visit I did a level bust in the London TMA... I was so embarrassed..:ouch:

Did you manage to have a play in the sims? That's always a good laugh....

Saw Marcus today - still good value, gets the job done very well and pretty quick with a joke too.

Good onya Gonzo
 

:ok:Man, I wish that ATC had that attitude in Australia :ugh: Coral's infantile response says it all.