CX or JQ, what wouldyou take?
 

Hi, I have a hypothetical scenario I would like to post here for a friend seeking opinions directly relevant to the scenario given.

The scenario is as follows. The friend currently has two job offers commencing around the same time. 1. Cathay Pacific 747-400 S/O and 2. Jetstar A320 F/O.

He is unsure which to accept, they both have their obvious advantages and disadvantages but he would like to get feedback from the general aviation community on what they would do.

The way I see it is as follows;

Cathay
Pros
No endorsement costs
Ok money
Excellent fleet of aircraft
Cons
7-10yrs for cmd up grade
Living in HK (objective)
2-3yrs as an S/O

Jetstar
Pros
With the nature of the industry and airline rapid expansion, a relatively quick command could be on the cards (around 3 yrs – same time as CX S/O to F/O)
Ability to have lifestyle and live in Aus (objective)
Cons
Endorsement costs
Everything else that comes with a low cost carrier

Ok, now what would you do in his shoes?

CX

how many leave cx to go to jq? and vice versa?

I am not sure if this is a wind up or not, but for the record, CX. No brainer for me anyway. But it depends what important to "your friend".

Bulla

no wind up!
 

CX, is this even a valid question?;)

Too easy - Cathay.

Pornstar

Because :
- I want to live in Australia
- I don't want to fly long boring sectors, esp as a SO
- I want a quick command

No offense meant to any JQ drivers but CX every day of the week.

D:ok:

Cathay. Do I see a trend?

CX

If he wants to stay in OZ then wait a few months for QF mainline.

Easy choice. CX.

DM

More questions...do you have kids and a wife that works? Have you spent some time in HK to see if you like it?

If your single and your primary aim is $$$ I reakon CX is your answer, otherwise the answer gets more difficult.

Both of them suit different people IMHO
JQ - Aus Basing, easy for partner to work, home nightly, schooling cheaper
CX- HK basing, harder for partner to work, lots of overnights, schooling V expensive

A lot of people that have spent 0 time in HK think everything is fine there, some people adapt well to it, some don't. We live in some of the least densly population parts of the world, parts in HK are the most densly populated areas in the world.

I've been there about 5 times, love it, to visit, I would never 'personally' want to live there. Check out the CX forums if you think it's a utopia any different to the problems faced by the operators in Oz. There are guys leaving CX to go back to the UK and the USA all the time, much the same as there are leaving EK as well.

Different strokes for different folks

Have any of the pro CX posters here actually worked for CX or lived in HKG or more importantly worked for both CX and JQ and and therefore have a balanced view. Or is it all based on looking from the outside at the big green jet that visits oz each day?

CX aint what its cracked up to be.

CX, quick commands are long gone, here's why:

Last guy on at JQ was 420ish, last command in the low 200s.
So anyone who starts now needs 200 guys to get commands ( yes, there are 60-70 Q numbers in there, but my, are'nt they starting to flood over )
lets say 150-160 for arguments sake, at the moment, rumours aside there is 9 320s ( 45 commands ) and 15 787s ( 105 commands ), thats 150 commands give or take a few over the next 2-3 years.
Anything else is pure rumour and conjecture and I would advise against basing a career decision on them.
Add into the equation, X amount of DECs on the 787 ( depending on how many blue shirts are willing to come from Emirates ) and its not looking too good for a " quick " command.
Of course, its aviation, could all change tomorrow and have'nt taken into acct guys leaving.

John Citizen

As 'cunninglinguist' said ... commands long gone!

Go where (even with recent losses) you are paid well enough and treated with at least a smidgen of respect.

CX 4 sure!

Kinda sums it up really...:rolleyes:

The very fact that you have joined PPRUNE in May of this year under a handle of CXorJQ shows this to be a wind up rather than a valid question.
If your mate isn't experienced enough to decide for himself, he doesn't deserve a job at either!

If you think 7-10 years for a wide body command at CX is a 'CON' then I guess you won't be applying to QF :ugh:

Depends where you want to live. Being in your own country with family and friends close-by is important for a lot of people. Not everyone wants to live in a foreign country as an ex-pat.
A lot depends on your attitude, age and ambition. Young bucks with the world at their feet and a life that revolves around the job...go CX.
If there's more to your life than the job, then maybe JQ would be more attractive.
Once you go to CX there's probably no coming back...once hooked into the system it's a big call to bail.
Good luck.

I turned down an interview with Cathay 8 1/2 yrs ago. To stay in OZ I have not regretted my descision for one second. But I have kids and a family. 10 acres 2 horses a happy wife and kids is pretty high on my list of priorities.

I love flying but I do this to be paid a wage to provide the lifestyle with which I can educate and bring up my kids in a safe environment Ask yourself. Where do you want to be in 10 years. The aircraft you will fly be it a dash 8, 737,747
will just be another bit of tin after a couple of years.
Good luck with your descision and hopefully it will be the right one
cheers

Go to CX:ok: for a couple of years and if its not your cup of tea try JQ:ok: for a LH seat slot...that would be the command decision:D..goodluck and remember you will never have the best of both worlds..I know I'll probably die trying:)

Oh CX, CX, CX,CX,CX,CX....................my god do any of you have your own ideas. All I can say is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA to all you CX wannabe sheep.

CX

With some aggressive and smart investing you can take a base in Oz after 5 years of seeing the world and have no mortgage.

JQ or CX?
 

Absolutely CX!! Best decision i ever made. Financially & professionally rewarding. Politics aside, one of the best. How much do you have to pay to get ahead in your profession?! Commercial licence, frozen ATPL, cost of renewals because some employers wouldn't pay for them, along with endoresments pay,pay,pay!! Where does it end? Absolutely disgraceful!!Apparently all we want to do is fly(because we love what we do?!!!) and we don't care about pay, retirement benefits and time at home with our loved ones. All we want to do is strap a shiny new plastic fantastic on our backs and fly till we drop!! SHAME, SHAME to those that profit out of those that can't afford it!
I wish your friend all the best in his endeavours, although his money could be more wisely spent elsewhere. Beers are on me when I next fly with him!!

I say again. Cathay. I wouldn't recommend you sign up here with the new plans for all new hires to be on AWAs. Honestly!!.

DM

Guess thats your answers cx0rjq.

Seems fairly straight forward. CX treat people properly

more info
 

Ok, here is some more information on the “friend” as requested;

Male
Single
Late 20’s

Still too easy - CX.

Wawoftam, all true what you say but I decided I don't wanna be flying when I'm 65, I don't like it THAT much.
Since I'm not one of these financial wiz's that turns a mediocre income into crap loads of money, no choice.
Under the Oz tax system the average wage earner is gauranteed not to get anywhere fast

I also favour CX, Mr Hat summed it up beutifully. CX treat you like a professional from day one.

J* and QF you still pay for the privilege of their interviews.


RC

Your mate is prob in the best democraphic for the CX job. Chase tail down route, at work, days off in HK, days off outta HK, on holiday, back home, on holiday elsewhere. Cash is good. Not for everyone though, and the perks aren't free. Like you said, pros & cons.

After many years with CX...after upgrading from jrn F/O to F/O you can file for location transfer...all depends on seniority and wait list....

All the best...

Answer is easy...... CX :ok:

So true.... plus both make you wait weeks, even months before you find out your result. :ugh: Although CX make you call them to find out the results (which some may think is wrong) at least you have a specific date.

I wish your mate the best of luck with his decision and outcome.

I weighed it all up, I researched Jetstar after they called me to interview, and politely turned them down... not close to what I was after.

I researched CX after they called me, did stage 1 then went up to HK for a look prior to stage 2 to satisfy myself with the place.

For me and what I'm after, CX looks the goods. There will always be a large percentage of pilots unhappy with what they've got, where they are, etc... and will always complain about it... I've done my share of complaining, but it comes with the industry!

It all comes down to a personal choice, plain and simple. Listening the the whiners on pprune will get you nowhere fast.

Go CX
 

. . .I've worked for Impulse, QF mainline and CX. I'd take CX any day.

I knocked back CX for Ansett quite a few years ago and at the time I was very happy with my decision, Ansett was always where I wanted to be.
If I had of taken the CX job I would have been a 400 skipper 3-4 years ago, now I find myself in the back seat of a 400 with the rat.
No regets though, I've got to spend my career so far in Australia, got to fly with one of the best airlines in the world and also with Qantas and every time I visit HKG I know I made the right decision because I cant wait to get out of the place.
But if your happy to work overseas
J* or CX.......take CX

You must be joking!
 

I cant believe anyone would have to ask this question. The ONLY reason anyone could justify taking a job with Jetstar would be if they couldnt get any other jet job in Aus and were just interested in working their proverbial asses off for pretty average money under very average conditions for a couple of years before saying "ciao!" and buggering off to Cathay, Dragon, Emirates or Etihad to earn some decent $$.

Jetstar is a job you only take if you cant get another job in Aus, AND you are interested in getting some experience to take overseas to get a decent job.

If thats not the reason, then maybe you are the sort of person that enjoys working for nothing - a bit like the GA punter who walks into your company and tells your boss he'll fly for free.

Take Skywest over JQ anyday!

questions4you2007
"I cant believe anyone would have to ask this question. The ONLY reason anyone could justify taking a job with Jetstar would be if they couldnt get any other jet job in Aus and were just interested in working their proverbial asses off for pretty average money under very average conditions for a couple of years before saying "ciao!" and buggering off to Cathay, Dragon, Emirates or Etihad to earn some decent $$.
Jetstar is a job you only take if you cant get another job in Aus, AND you are interested in getting some experience to take overseas to get a decent job.
If thats not the reason, then maybe you are the sort of person that enjoys working for nothing - a bit like the GA punter who walks into your company and tells your boss he'll fly for free.
Take Skywest over JQ anyday"
Question4you. What a presumptuous post!
"The ONLY reason anyone could justify taking a job with Jetstar would be if they couldnt get any other jet job in Aus".
Let's have a look at a few reasons people might want a job wit J*
1. To live in the city of their choice.
2. To put lifestyle ahead of cash.
3. To be near family and friends.
4. To live near family and friends so their kids can grow up surrounded by those who love them.
5. Because an 'out and back' in a day profile, might allow you to see your family and friends more often.
6. Because they don't want to work for Q mainline and sit on their asses for god knows how many years as a second officer and do NOTHING.
7. Because working for mainline as a Second Officer (if you live ANYWHERE OTHER THAN SYD) means commuting.
8. Because commuting to SYD means extra cost (maybe $10,000 a year - Figures from a number of commuters I know).
9. Because commuting to SYD leaves less time at home.
10. Because some people might not want to go away for 14 days at a time.
11. Because as a commuter you do not get the benefits that a SYD residing Q pilot gets (car park at the airport/ taxi to from work).
12. Because you might actually like working, flying 4-5 sectors a day doesn't phase you.
13. Because even though the pay is less - you might actually have other income, so the money is not a factor.
14. Because you might not want to live in the SAND or the SMOG.
By the way, what does work your asses off mean? Last time I looked J* can't work you any more hours than ANY OTHER airline governed the LEGISLATION. For a long haul pilot who does one take off and landing in a fifteen-hour day, five sectors might be "working your ass off" but for a charter/joy flight pilot, it might be a joyous break.
The amount of bashing that goes on here in Pprune is amazing. It always ends in insults to whoever mentions the dreaded J*…… Why can't people give facts, hold the insults and realise that every one has different priorities in life? What suits them might not suit you. Their life is their life - let them live it.
P.S. I am at the same stage with Q, J* and CX. My preference is for J*.
P.P.S. Ever heard of an apostrophe?

Have to agree with TM in post#23............. therefore CX :ok:

Shouldhe, nice post. Sorry for my slow reply, but here it is:

Ok granted, some of the reasons you give for someone taking a job with Jetstar are valid. But lets be honest with each other here - Jetstar is the worst jet airline job in the country (yes that is my opinion, and if you disagree we will have to agree to disagree).

"1. To live in the city of their choice.
3. To be near family and friends.
4. To live near family and friends so their kids can grow up surrounded by those who love them.
5. Because an 'out and back' in a day profile, might allow you to see your family and friends more often. "

Ok maybe, but if you want to live in Sydney, Brisbane or Perth there are definitely better choices.

To put lifestyle ahead of cash? Absolutely not! A QF S/O can expect to earn anywhere between 35K - 70K MORE than a JQ FO. A Virgin FO can expect to earn between 25K - 40K more than a JQ FO. A skywest FO is on similar money to a JQ FO. A QF FO makes anywhere between 45K - 165K MORE than a JQ FO. Every one of these jobs offer a significantly better lifestyle than the JQ FO enjoys. I dont know about you, but I think more time off at home = better lifestyle. JQ finishes last by this measure.

"Because they don't want to work for Q mainline and sit on their asses for god knows how many years as a second officer and do NOTHING"

Ok. But if you want to jump straight into the right seat why not fly for Virgin, Skywest, Dragon or Emirates? As per my original post, I say because you didnt get any other job. (and no im not bashing guys and girls that work for JQ - I have mates that work for them that are great people and good pilots. I just think they should be paid more and work under better conditions of employment)

"7. Because working for mainline as a Second Officer (if you live ANYWHERE OTHER THAN SYD) means commuting.
8. Because commuting to SYD means extra cost (maybe $10,000 a year - Figures from a number of commuters I know).
9. Because commuting to SYD leaves less time at home."

A few words about commuting as a QF Second Officer. Yes if you live outside Sydney you will be commuting. 10K is definitely at the upper end of numbers i have heard for cost. But depending on how you bid for trips, and which aircraft type you are on, you can actually go for months and months without having to fork out ANY money of your own to pay for your commuting (if you bid for pax first sector, or pax last sector trips). But even so, I would prefer to earn alot more money and spend some on commuting, then to earn a pittance. Regarding having less time at home as a result, again, alot of people that do it end up with at least as much time at home, and sometimes MORE time at home, depending on how they bid. If you live in Adelaide, bid for trips that go through there and have a night or 2 at home on the company.

"Because some people might not want to go away for 14 days at a time."

Fly for Virgin then! Much better pay and conditions than JQ.

"Because you might actually like working, flying 4-5 sectors a day doesn't phase you.
13. Because even though the pay is less - you might actually have other income, so the money is not a factor.
14. Because you might not want to live in the SAND or the SMOG."

If you like working, why not fly for a mob that pay more for your time? Such places to work are QF, Virgin, CX and EK.

If you have other income, wouldnt you prefer to have more time at home to look after the other business? I sure would! Places that offer more time at home than JQ are QF and Virgin.

If you dont want to live in the sand or the smog, why not fly for an airline that offers the best money and lifestlye in Australia? Such places would be QF, Virgin and Skywest in my opinion.

"The amount of bashing that goes on here in Pprune is amazing. It always ends in insults to whoever mentions the dreaded J*…… Why can't people give facts, hold the insults and realise that every one has different priorities in life? What suits them might not suit you. Their life is their life - let them live it.
P.S. I am at the same stage with Q, J* and CX. My preference is for J*.
P.P.S. Ever heard of an apostrophe?"

Im not a JQ basher, and i know everyone is at different stages and have different priorities. The fact is JQ drivers should earn more, and enjoy conditions that are better. That is my line. The company and senior execs are screwing pilots for their own benefit and it is sick.

Joyce doesnt care about his drivers. Infact, like his cabin crew he doesnt care if he has a high turnover of pilots. 'Work them hard, pay them nothing until they cant put up with it any longer and quit. Then we'll get another bloke in to do the job'. That is his attitude.

If you really are at the same stage of recruitment with all 3 carriers as you say, i cannot endorse CX or QF highly enough over JQ. I have enough mates in each to know a good deal from a bad deal. And please do yourself a favour and say a polite 'no thanks' to JQ.

No i dont like to use apostrophes because it lets you write something in your posts that i cannot rebut. You need to have some strengths in your arguement! JQ being a decent job is not one of them however.