Puff

Funny then how the Euro experience is completely different. Interesting that all the UK locos are more than happy to take 146 guys as DEC, and they don't have a lot of training failures. Same goes for Emirates and others.

More to the point, if Ansett were binning people because they didn't get the FMC, then there must have been some other issue going on. You teach the FMC in the classroom, not the sim. Under the Euro system, from memory, you don't even need to use the FMC for a proficiency check. Any airline that had a candidate who possessed good handling skills but was a little slow with the FMC, and canned them om that basis, has a very odd way of looking at training.

podbreak

I didn't say that they should, necessarily, except where there is a clear experience shortfall in the LHS - I was responding to the point about CASA allegedly requiring VB to hire DECS for that reason.

No, I didn't. I suggested that this COULD happen. Others obviously think it already IS happening (ie VB).

Not necessarily. Banging around in a Conquest or a King Air, even multi-crew, doesn't prepare you for the speed and inertia of most jets, never mind the different handling characteristics. Using that logic, lots of 152 time must be a good preparation for a turborop, especially if you take a mate along to handle the radios.

In my time in check and training, the people we chopped the most of were the light twin drivers with an overdose of "look at me, I'm flying big planes" about them...

I thought about it for half an hour, and I still have no idea what that means...

Metro man

It isn't the only type on my licence, but thanks for the insult.

So in your career, you have gone from command (of a Chieftain?), to F/O of a jet, then you propose to up sticks and move to Qatar, and then to Emirates? That might be your dream career, but it certainly isn't mine.

Really? I had no idea it worked like that... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Metro man... yeah, really...:rolleyes:

Wizofoz

Nor do I, and I have already said so. It is only where there is a clear experience issue in the LHS. My point is that the Euro airlines recognise the problem and deal with it, but the Aus/Kiwi airlines will do anything to avoid hiring a DEC. Unions 1 - Safety 0.

metro752

Yeah and let's look at the state of US airlines... most either in, or have recently been, in Chapter 11... heavily unionised by militant unions... pay and conditions that have closed some airlines, and which are now dropping through the floor as everyone realises that they were never viable... etc etc etc.

And you also have wonderful stuff like furloughs... never see that in Europe. Thanks, but you can keep your "real world", it is one of the least progressive airline environments on the planet.

Chimbu

I'm just guessing here, but a lot of Aussies use that phrase... you are referring to 89, right? An event that goes a long way to proving my point. And when you say "taken a job as an SFO on widebody", what you really mean is that you have been forced to go and fly in Asia somewhere, probably on of the less glamourous carriers, in order to get a foothold back on the ladder - right?

I'm not saying that is wrong, or bad, or anything, it's the choice you made. Personally, I would rather live in nice, civilised (for the most part) NZ and get to play with my kids, than have to do what you are doing to keep flying. I don't love flying more than my family, and for that reason I haven't gone down that road - although I was within a whisker of accepting a DEC offer on the 767ER with Air Japan (who don't seem to have a problem with the quadrapuff).

Who cares? Once the cockpit door is shut, they are all pretty much the same. I don't want to fly an automated marvel that records my every input and scolds me if I attempt to deviate from the somewhat rigid rules. I don't particularly want to sit there for eight hours watching the thing fly itself. YMMV.

Personally, I have started my own aviation business, with an earning potential many times that of any airline in this part of the world. I do the occasional contract in Euroland to keep my hand in, and I fly small things when I feel like it. It's a better life (for me)... I haven't even bothered applying to any Oz or NZ airlines - for those who think that this is all sour grapes. Too much arse-licking and grovelling required.

I just believe that the processes and practices down here suck. They are parochial and blinkered. Get away from these shores, and things are very different.

YMMV, and that's fine.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Remoak this has gone on long enough, I think your mind is made up and your perception of our industry isn't going to change, however;

There isn't, the CASA aren't.

Yes, but it hasn't yet. Hence they don't want/need you.

No, thats why they become FOs first, but as you said command qualities can be gained without the 'speed and inertia', or more specifically REGARDLESS OF TYPE.
What about the inertia? Faster and bigger than the 146...

Its pretty clear, there are fewer pilots to jobs now then there was before.

For the third time; We are nowhere near where Europe is/was. If you worked with us you'd know that.

Now i'm confused, you want to stay in the regionals then, well they ARE hiring, doesn't sound like you want to fly an A320/737.

Now I really feel like i've wasted my time, check out your original post. No one hiring captains, shouldn't matter to you then...

This is a pointless thread drift....:ugh:

I get to live in a nice civilised place over here. I can walk to the beach in 15 minutes, work is only half an hour away. As all the flying is out and back I get to see more of my kids than I did in Australia. If I want I can afford a full time maid and a new car. Overseas holidays twice a year. This is on an F/O salary.

Recently I had the opportunity to move back to Oz flying the same type, I didn't take it. At the moment I take home about the same as a Captain in DJ/J* when I get upgraded in another year or two I get a 50% pay increase.

When I move on there are plenty of possibilities, not just QATAR or EK. I don't really fancy the sandpit just using them as examples.

Being in Asia is not a hardship I put up with just to keep flying or save money.

Actually you are right I did fly a Chieftain for a while and was overqualified for it having an ATPL 4000+ hours and turbine time but it beat being out of work. It also led me into another job which led me into this. I put my head down and got on with it rather than complain about it being beneath me and waiting for something better which might never arrive. It was worth it in the end.;)