NZ: ATPL Flight Test
 

Help/Info Required:

Returning to NZ and need to do an ATPL (A) Flight Test.
I have all the NZ subjects and 8000+hours (Heavy Jet blah blah).

Does anyone know where we can do the Flight Test privately?

Not looking for any ad hoc work in NZ at all.....just need to do the check!

Thanks in advance. (PM me if you're worried about "advertising" on Pprune)

PF

G'day mate.

I'm not worried about 'advertising' on PPRuNe, and someone else may find this useful. Doing an ATPL flight test privately is not all that common, and as you will know it has to be done in an aircraft of reasonable complexity and performance.

Air Wanganui is probably your best bet. They've done this sort of thing before using their Piper Mojave.

Do you already have an ICAO ATPL? I'm sure you've exhausted all avenues, but it could actually be easier (and would certainly be cheaper) to do an Aussie ATPL and convert (no flight test, just convert your license, and do the papers).

Perhaps other people have got more options........

Good luck with it all :ok:

Check your PMs

I know of at least one person who used an AirNZ sim- 767 from memory. Was about 4 years ago though but worth checking.

Me too, have done the subjects, looks like I may now need to do the flight test.

Either that or go to Aussie and redo the subjects

Be aware that doing your ATPL flight test in the old mojave will cost you well over $10,000 ! as the flight examiner will require you to have over 10 hours on type, which is fair enough I guess but it goes for a thousand dollars an hour, which would seem a bit excessive for an old chieftain! You'd be better trying to find someone who can do you a sim ride in something you're typed on. Either that or convert your ICAO ATPL to an Australian one, then use the TTMRA agreement to bring it over to an NZ licence.

the TTMRA only allows conversion of licenses. You cannot exchange your subjects in the hope of then getting the australian license. Any flight test in NZ will cos you mega bucks. best idea is to go and do the ATPL course in Mooloolaba. It is a full time course and by all accounts is top notch. It will save you a small fortune, and at the same time having a holiday.

There was some talk in Aussie recently about having to do flight tests for the issue of ATPL licences, you might want to check up on this before going over.

Gravox,
Does that mean that the Aussie licence will then be as good as the NZ/UK/JAA licence rather than the wheatbix packet variety?
:E :E :E :E :} :} :} :}

I've heard of a Kiwi expat coming back from HKG to hire the ANZ B777 SIM and instructor to complete their ATPL.

If the test is done properly to the required standard you should really complete it in an aircraft that you are "properly" current on.

I was fortunate to have completed it as part of my employers training/checking cycle.

My advise to people considering heading overseas is to get the Kiwi ATPL before they leave. If I was doing it all again with regard to the ATPL theory I would take the Aussie/TTRMA option - the sunshine coast operation looks like a good setup, the exams more realistic than the ancient NZ slyabus and also a great opporunity to blaze it up in a "foreign" land.

The only possible draw back about the "back door" option is that some prospective employers may ask/judge as to where & how you achieved the ATPL.

Swamped

gravox, i was assuming the guy has an ATPL already, in which case he can get an australian ATPL fairly easily, certainly a lot easier than an NZ one, and convert that via the TTMRA. As you say, if he's still on a CPL, go and do all the Australian exams at AFT.

I have a full set of AFT notes + law books going cheap as it happens, PM me :-)

Thanks for the info guys.

I have NZ CPL and instrument rating (multi engine) and have completed all the NZ ATPL subjects but have not done a flight test. I also don't have curently have a type rating on anything suitable for a ATPL flight test. I was planning on the flight test being taken care of by a potential future employer....

However now that thats not happening( :mad:), I'm thinking about looking for work overseas and therefore need an ATPL. Looks like its either cough up for the flight test or cough up to go to Aussie and resit all the exams.

Sorry for the resurrection of this post, but looking at current info of who I can do a ATPL flight test with.
Won't have time to write my Aussie ATPL with current work commitments.
No jet or large turboprop time. Just king air 100.
Any help would be appreciated.

I'm in the same boat as you lilflyboy. Currently I'm looking at starting the process to get a b200 recognised for the flight test which seems to just be a paperwork exercise with the Feds. I've noted that flight test and training nz don't seem to have testing officers for the issue of ATPLs. Air Wanganui may be of some help from their experience using the Mojave?
For some reason it seems like a fair bit of an effort just to organise a flight test outside of the airlines

Have you got a quote from CAA with their hourly rate and how long it will take?
That in itself could well be $1000s

I've heard that Air2there can possibly do it with their 200? Waiting to hear back from them about this.
I've emailed CAA and the only response is with all the airline operators and all above 5,700kg aircraft.
No mention of the Mojave or any Kingair types other than a 350 with Hawker Pacific.

If I read the aircraft registry correctly the only B200 is ZK-LRJ at 5710kgs.
Aeromotive Leasing Limited, Hamilton. Which could be leased onwards of course.
The last I heard about the B350 ZK-MMM was that it was de-registered to leave the country for good.

NZ CAA recognised Air Wanganui's Mojave as a ATPL machine because of its complex systems i.e csu props, retractable gear and pressurisation.

I would assume any Kingair variant C90, 100/200/350 would meet the same criteria. The Beech Duke B60? has also been used in the past.

AIRNZ has a Beech 1900D sim in Auckland. Might pay to check with them as a similar type to the Kingair.

S2K

Theres also MYM which is a b200.

I think Helipro brought it into the country and airtothere operate it?

Having been thru this process about 10 years ago, it seems it hasn't changed much in the lack of availability of an appropriate aircraft. The requirements from CAA are 3 fold, it is EITHER over 5700kgs, pressurized or turbine. Note either, not all 3, so this is why the Mojave can be used as it's pressurized. Someone mentioned that you need 10 hours on type, this is correct, and you also need a current NZ Instrument rating, so if yours isn't, then you need to do a currency ride, which is going to cost. Add on top a 1-2 hour type rating as well to that mix. It was possible to do "dead" sectors in the Mojave to reduce the cost, however, as I found, this was a very frustrating exercise as you basically need to sit around waiting for it to be used, mainly to WLG, which is about 1/2 an hour so it takes a fair few sectors to get your 10hours up. At the time Air Wanganui had just acquired their Kingair so they were using that mostly as opposed to the Mojave, as you would, so it took me months of back and forth to Wanganui. Unless they now use the Kingair for ATPL flight tests, I would not recommend this path. I'm not sure of other aircraft, I did contact Vincents in WLG, they seemed receptive but again, this information is old.

One more thing...don't expect the examiner from CAA to be available when you are. I believe there was only one examiner in the country, and it was near impossible to get him booked any time under 6 months prior. This was obviously a major hindrance in getting the flight test done. Don't forget also, the examiner is based in Wellington, so you'll need to pay his costs in getting to where ever you are and home again.

All in, if you can't get it done with the airlines, expect an excessively frustrating, long and expensive path to the flight test....and NZCAA were about as useless as Captain Hook at a gynaecology convention....:E:ugh:

Flight test prerequisites
A candidate for ATPL (A) issue flight test is required by Civil Aviation Rule to;
(a) Hold appropriate current written examination credit(s), and
(b) Present all relevant knowledge deficiency reports; and
(c) Have a certified logbook record of the requisite flight experience, and
(d) Have proof of their identity, and
(e) Hold a current CPL(A) or SCPL(A) or equivalent, and
(f) Hold an instrument rating, and
(g) Hold a current Class 1 Medical Certificate, and
(h) Hold a type rating for the aircraft used on the flight test.

Aircraft and equipment requirements for flight test
The candidate is required to provide a multi-engine aircraft of a MCTOW of at
least 5700 kilograms (or equivalent as approved by the Director) or approved
flight simulator for the flight test. The aircraft or approved flight simulator must
be equipped for, and its operating limitations must not prohibit, flight under IFR
and all other pilot operations required during the test. Required equipment will
include;
(a) Fully functioning dual flight controls, and
(b) Those instruments essential to the manoeuvres planned to be
demonstrated during the flight visible to both pilots without excessive
parallax error, and
(c) At least three-point lap-and-sash harness, and
(d) Intercommunication equipment of an approved type, and
(e) An acceptable means of simulating instrument flight.
The candidate is required to provide adequate and private facilities for briefing
prior to and after the flight test.