Primary Radar Withdrawn in the Manawatu
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Primary Radar Withdrawn in the Manawatu
It's official.
My spies tell me the Air Force doesn't want to pay and Airways don't see the need, so the Wilson's Road Primary Radar is being shut down for good.
B2371/03 FROM: 03/08/19 04:29 TO: 03/10/29 11:00
NZ03,NZ04,NZ05
OHAKEA PRI RADAR COMPLETELY WITHDRAWN WEF 0500 UTC 31 AUG 2003.
RADAR FLT INFO SER AVBL SSR ONLY WI OHAKEA CONTROLLED AIRSPACE
AND PALMERSTON NORTH CTR/D. AIP WILL BE AMENDED
My spies tell me the Air Force doesn't want to pay and Airways don't see the need, so the Wilson's Road Primary Radar is being shut down for good.
B2371/03 FROM: 03/08/19 04:29 TO: 03/10/29 11:00
NZ03,NZ04,NZ05
OHAKEA PRI RADAR COMPLETELY WITHDRAWN WEF 0500 UTC 31 AUG 2003.
RADAR FLT INFO SER AVBL SSR ONLY WI OHAKEA CONTROLLED AIRSPACE
AND PALMERSTON NORTH CTR/D. AIP WILL BE AMENDED
Join Date: Mar 2000
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It is time that all NZ airspace should be transponder mandatory and all aircraft in NZ should have transponders. There would be no need for Primary radar.
For those areas that have no secondary radar coverage pilots should still have their transponders on so that any aircraft that has TCAS/ACAS can detect the where-abouts of that aircraft which is sometimes difficult to see with the naked eye.
For those areas that have no secondary radar coverage pilots should still have their transponders on so that any aircraft that has TCAS/ACAS can detect the where-abouts of that aircraft which is sometimes difficult to see with the naked eye.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Couldn't agree more Eurocap. Who cares about loss of PRI radar at OH??? B'stards were too nosey anyhoo... 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all Designated Mountainous Terrain in Godzone was TM anyway... soooo, given that close to 90% of our landmass is DMT, surely most (if not all) aircraft should by now be transponder equipped. But as you point out, it's no good if it ain't turned on!
A couple of years ago there was a move in the MF Users Group for all participants to use their transponders for the benefit of the "heavies" and other TCAS equipped aircraft in the area. Hope thats whats happened. Although it may not appear to directly affect YOU whether your transponder is on or not, it just may prevent a 737 or similar being the last thing to pass through your mind in congested airspace!
Think about it!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all Designated Mountainous Terrain in Godzone was TM anyway... soooo, given that close to 90% of our landmass is DMT, surely most (if not all) aircraft should by now be transponder equipped. But as you point out, it's no good if it ain't turned on!
A couple of years ago there was a move in the MF Users Group for all participants to use their transponders for the benefit of the "heavies" and other TCAS equipped aircraft in the area. Hope thats whats happened. Although it may not appear to directly affect YOU whether your transponder is on or not, it just may prevent a 737 or similar being the last thing to pass through your mind in congested airspace!
Think about it!
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Euro, Quite agree that all NZ airspace ought to be TM. Unfortunately making it TM will not ensure that all aircraft will have them, nor ensure that all pilots turn them on!!
Primary Radar is still the only equipment available to ATC that is independent of airborne equipment.
Two scenarios that concern ATC's is intrusion in congested airspace either by accident or design by non-transponding aircraft and
equipment failure aboard IFR aircraft.
Either of these scenarios present a potential hazard in Terminal airspace, and without Primary radar the only way you are going to find out is by collision
Primary Radar is still the only equipment available to ATC that is independent of airborne equipment.
Two scenarios that concern ATC's is intrusion in congested airspace either by accident or design by non-transponding aircraft and
equipment failure aboard IFR aircraft.
Either of these scenarios present a potential hazard in Terminal airspace, and without Primary radar the only way you are going to find out is by collision
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Primary Radar is not used down in the Deep South and Secondary Radar does not reach that far.
How do you think that the pilots avoid conflict.
By use of the mark-one eyeball and good communication between aircraft and those that are lucky enough to have TCAS/ACAS use that as a tool if the other aircraft has a transponder on.
One has to be extremely careful not to become complacent because they have TCAS, because some aircraft pilots do not use their transponders in non-transponder mandatory airspace.
This has also been observed in transponder mandatory airspace by some low-level operators, as well, in the past twelve months.
Having the whole country mandatory and making it illegal to fly without a transponder would go a whole long way towards making our skies safer.
How do you think that the pilots avoid conflict.
By use of the mark-one eyeball and good communication between aircraft and those that are lucky enough to have TCAS/ACAS use that as a tool if the other aircraft has a transponder on.
One has to be extremely careful not to become complacent because they have TCAS, because some aircraft pilots do not use their transponders in non-transponder mandatory airspace.
This has also been observed in transponder mandatory airspace by some low-level operators, as well, in the past twelve months.
Having the whole country mandatory and making it illegal to fly without a transponder would go a whole long way towards making our skies safer.
True, without primary radar there is no way of knowing if an aircraft is out there unless they have their transponder switched on.
How would one enforce this?
Even in the extreme example of a near miss, short of following said aircraft to their destination it would be difficult to track the offending aircraft to prosecute him/her. There would be no flight path trace.
Primary radar is still very valuable.
Having the whole country mandatory and making it illegal to fly without a transponder would go a whole long way towards making our skies safer.
Even in the extreme example of a near miss, short of following said aircraft to their destination it would be difficult to track the offending aircraft to prosecute him/her. There would be no flight path trace.
Primary radar is still very valuable.
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A collision avoided is still a collision avoided.
Having operated into main & U/C smaller ports in NZ, If you've got it (TXPDR) USE IT!
It costs nothing to turn it on.
But could save a heck of a lot later on.
One day you could be flying into those same ports and you'll love to see the little dots on your screen before they get anywhere near you.....
But would still like to keep the PSR. It's always nice to know it's there.....
Having operated into main & U/C smaller ports in NZ, If you've got it (TXPDR) USE IT!
It costs nothing to turn it on.
But could save a heck of a lot later on.
One day you could be flying into those same ports and you'll love to see the little dots on your screen before they get anywhere near you.....
But would still like to keep the PSR. It's always nice to know it's there.....
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The difference between flying in the deep south and around the Manawatu is traffic density. Around Ohakea/Palmerston Nth is a choke point for all the lighties transiting south or north at lower levels, with the RPT traffic over the top or making an approach through terminal airspace.
Combined with that you have two "large" training schools (RNZAF and Massey - I'll take the critiscim on the merits of that comment!) increasing traffic density, as well as a busy Ag and GA scene from Fielding and Wanganui.
All this combines to combine many different aircraft of varied performance level, equipment level and varied skill levels. The risk of collision is surely increased by ATC NOT having the ability to offer a primary radar advisory or collision avoidance service.
Granted, the need for a primary radar head has reduced with the withdrawl of the fast jet fleet from Ohakea, but in these days of OSH shouldn't the government (hence Airways) be doing all it can to make flying safer?
Combined with that you have two "large" training schools (RNZAF and Massey - I'll take the critiscim on the merits of that comment!) increasing traffic density, as well as a busy Ag and GA scene from Fielding and Wanganui.
All this combines to combine many different aircraft of varied performance level, equipment level and varied skill levels. The risk of collision is surely increased by ATC NOT having the ability to offer a primary radar advisory or collision avoidance service.
Granted, the need for a primary radar head has reduced with the withdrawl of the fast jet fleet from Ohakea, but in these days of OSH shouldn't the government (hence Airways) be doing all it can to make flying safer?
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couldnt agree with you more 'CHOPA'!
EUROCAP- mark one eyeball is all very well and good..unless you have a gear problem on the PM25 appro...and get side tracked.
Transponder failures do happen in lightees without a back up too.+Bit of a b ****** after being cleared to desend 'radar terrain..vectors....'then being told ...ahh we lost ya buddy.Happened to me once.
EUROCAP- mark one eyeball is all very well and good..unless you have a gear problem on the PM25 appro...and get side tracked.
Transponder failures do happen in lightees without a back up too.+Bit of a b ****** after being cleared to desend 'radar terrain..vectors....'then being told ...ahh we lost ya buddy.Happened to me once.
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They didn't think too hard about the decision to remove the primary radar did they?
After all it could be Pearl Harbour all over again for little Ohakea if anybody wanted to attack our 2 jets.
The banner reads "All those intending on attacking NZ - Yes that includes you Aussies - Just remember to turn on your transponders so we can see you"
The mind boggles
Sarcasm at it's best
After all it could be Pearl Harbour all over again for little Ohakea if anybody wanted to attack our 2 jets.
The banner reads "All those intending on attacking NZ - Yes that includes you Aussies - Just remember to turn on your transponders so we can see you"
The mind boggles
Sarcasm at it's best
