Dash8 crash in NZ
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In a shoe box
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dash8 crash in NZ
I've done a search and can't find anything regarding the Dash8 that crashed a few years ago a few miles short of its destination.
It was a bad wx accident, and the CRM was a bit lacking.
Does anyone know where I could find more info.
Thanks
It was a bad wx accident, and the CRM was a bit lacking.
Does anyone know where I could find more info.
Thanks
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: south
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: nEW zEALAND
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bought the book on the incident a couple of years ago at the 'Whare' House. Strangely enough I think it was called "Dash 8 Down" Based on personal accounts of survivors etc.
I'll go have a look for it.
I'll go have a look for it.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 'round here
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aside from being IMC at the time, I don't think you could say the weather was a factor. Though it made the rescue difficult. Book was ok, nothing ground breaking but a good sunday afternoon read.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Sofa
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not suggesting that
caused this A/C to crash, merely making an observation. Some may suggest this, coupled with an arguably defective VOR 25 approach(windshear,turbulence,downdraughts-hilly terrain) may have contributed to the dash spudding in
I don't think there's any question that this is NOT a bad wx accident-just a classic human factors one.
ps: book was pretty good and reasonably balanced considering the polarisation of opinion on the subject.
a fairly stiff Palmy breeze
I don't think there's any question that this is NOT a bad wx accident-just a classic human factors one.
ps: book was pretty good and reasonably balanced considering the polarisation of opinion on the subject.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In a shoe box
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to be mis-understood, guys.
I didn't mean to imply that wx was a factor, I just remember from many years ago when I first heard about this unfortuneate accident that they were doing an instrument approach.
The main reason I wanted to find more about this accident is the human factors side of things ..CRM or lack of it.
I fly RPT turbine, both Single pilot and Multi crew, and my thoughts are that single pilot in some ways is safer than multi crew, unless the multi crewing (CRM) is taught in a professional manner.
I didn't mean to imply that wx was a factor, I just remember from many years ago when I first heard about this unfortuneate accident that they were doing an instrument approach.
The main reason I wanted to find more about this accident is the human factors side of things ..CRM or lack of it.
I fly RPT turbine, both Single pilot and Multi crew, and my thoughts are that single pilot in some ways is safer than multi crew, unless the multi crewing (CRM) is taught in a professional manner.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New Zealand
Age: 62
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This rather interesting NOTAM was issued a while ago:
A E R O D R O M E I N F O R M A T I O N
PALMERSTON NORTH (NZPM)
B1607/03 FROM: 03/05/25 21:18 TO: 03/08/26 21:00
RWY 25 VOR/DME APCH. IN STRONG WIND COND ACFT MAY ENCOUNTER
SEV
TURB, DOWNDRAUGHTS AND LEE WAVES DRG THIS APCH AND DIFFICULTY
MAY BE EXPERIENCED MAINTAINING THE APCH PROFILE. INFO ON ACTUAL
WIND CONDITIONS IN THE APCH AREA IS NOT ROUTINELY AVBL.
IT HAS BEEN REPORTED THAT WINDS IN THE APCH AREA MAY BE 2 TO 3
TIMES STRONGER THAN THE NZPM WIND. PILOTS ARE REMINDED OF THE
NEED TO OBTAIN CURRENT MET INFO PRIOR TO COMMENCING FLIGHT.
A E R O D R O M E I N F O R M A T I O N
PALMERSTON NORTH (NZPM)
B1607/03 FROM: 03/05/25 21:18 TO: 03/08/26 21:00
RWY 25 VOR/DME APCH. IN STRONG WIND COND ACFT MAY ENCOUNTER
SEV
TURB, DOWNDRAUGHTS AND LEE WAVES DRG THIS APCH AND DIFFICULTY
MAY BE EXPERIENCED MAINTAINING THE APCH PROFILE. INFO ON ACTUAL
WIND CONDITIONS IN THE APCH AREA IS NOT ROUTINELY AVBL.
IT HAS BEEN REPORTED THAT WINDS IN THE APCH AREA MAY BE 2 TO 3
TIMES STRONGER THAN THE NZPM WIND. PILOTS ARE REMINDED OF THE
NEED TO OBTAIN CURRENT MET INFO PRIOR TO COMMENCING FLIGHT.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Sofa
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reynoldsno-one, did someone say
appeared in the report?
Arguably -as in some pundits believe it was a factor in this accident-one link in a classic error chain HF incident.
I concede Airways dont consider their approach to be in error,some others do.
Yank, saw the NOTAM when it was issued and raised an eyebrow
clearly someone thought the approach warranted extra care? I know of one GA company that doesnt permit their pilots to do the 25 app.,so perhaps the reputation is growing.
I've never done the approach myself so have no educated opinion on the subject
an arguably defective VOR 25 approach
Arguably -as in some pundits believe it was a factor in this accident-one link in a classic error chain HF incident.
I concede Airways dont consider their approach to be in error,some others do.
Yank, saw the NOTAM when it was issued and raised an eyebrow
clearly someone thought the approach warranted extra care? I know of one GA company that doesnt permit their pilots to do the 25 app.,so perhaps the reputation is growing.I've never done the approach myself so have no educated opinion on the subject
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Anywhere I want
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The PMR 25 approach itself is not that bad.
Yes it can get bumpy in windy conditions, as it does anywhere, esp Wellington!
It does however require a bit more crew coordination and/or planning than say the straight-in 07 approach.
OH/PM ATC are quite good regarding this approach and you can normally get the 07 circ 25. Obviously with the inherent problems associated with a rather large tailwind and the circling bit. And depending on departing tfc.
If you use PM then do the approach on a nice day to get the feel of it. Then it won't be the big boogy-man on a not-so-nice day.
Pass-A-Frozo - The F/A was one of the 5 casualties.
Yes it can get bumpy in windy conditions, as it does anywhere, esp Wellington!
It does however require a bit more crew coordination and/or planning than say the straight-in 07 approach.
OH/PM ATC are quite good regarding this approach and you can normally get the 07 circ 25. Obviously with the inherent problems associated with a rather large tailwind and the circling bit. And depending on departing tfc.
If you use PM then do the approach on a nice day to get the feel of it. Then it won't be the big boogy-man on a not-so-nice day.
Pass-A-Frozo - The F/A was one of the 5 casualties.
I have not read the book, nor do I assume to know the reasons for the crash. Based on informal comments/rumours I would believe this was a largely HF/CRM senario and would tend to lean away from the wx being a major factor.
That being said, I would like to open a discussion on the pro's/con's of taking any non-normal situation onto an approach, or continuing the approach if said situations arise after the approach has been commenced.
Your thoughts/ideas and reasons appreciated.
That being said, I would like to open a discussion on the pro's/con's of taking any non-normal situation onto an approach, or continuing the approach if said situations arise after the approach has been commenced.
Your thoughts/ideas and reasons appreciated.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Anywhere I want
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simple DON'T
The last thing you need is something distracting you near the ground and/or in a high workload environment.
Commence a missed apph, ask ATC for help, find a nice quiet hold and sort it out.
Fix the problem; find a better airfield to land at; or one with better nav aids (like an ILS).
If there's two of you, so much the better!
The last thing you need is something distracting you near the ground and/or in a high workload environment.
Commence a missed apph, ask ATC for help, find a nice quiet hold and sort it out.
Fix the problem; find a better airfield to land at; or one with better nav aids (like an ILS).
If there's two of you, so much the better!