2004 QF Cadetship is on, or is it?
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2004 QF Cadetship is on, or is it?
It was interesting to note that applications are open for QF cadets (http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/employment/pilots) , but the cadetship is not confirmed until September (when the big Q better understands its situations after SARS and other world events).
Just interested in if people think it will go ahead, I heard rumers that Qantas is going to get 777's or possibly even more 737's - you would think this means that they definitely need pilots. You would also think the deliveries of new aircraft and the A380's expected in 2006 would require a steady intake of pilots? Perhaps not
Indeed a strange situation
Just interested in if people think it will go ahead, I heard rumers that Qantas is going to get 777's or possibly even more 737's - you would think this means that they definitely need pilots. You would also think the deliveries of new aircraft and the A380's expected in 2006 would require a steady intake of pilots? Perhaps not
Indeed a strange situation
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See I was thinking that Qantas could get away without new pilots, since they have cut back on services etc - that way they just reassign pilots they already have. But I have seen various other airlines predicting service to go back to full capacity by September (perhaps this is why Qantas has nominated September as their "review" date).
I also noticed that this time around they have added the NVFR (like mathewb has mensioned) as well as another "flight screening" stage for people who don't do so well on the cadet flight test.
Does anyone know why the two above have been added? Are they looking for more commercial cadets? What has been the ab-inito / commercial cadet ratio from past years?
Some interesting questions
I also noticed that this time around they have added the NVFR (like mathewb has mensioned) as well as another "flight screening" stage for people who don't do so well on the cadet flight test.
Does anyone know why the two above have been added? Are they looking for more commercial cadets? What has been the ab-inito / commercial cadet ratio from past years?
Some interesting questions
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SSC,
The airline's reached a transition point, there's no doubt about it. Over the next few months in particular they'll be making some important decisions about their short and longer term direction, including fleet planning, and once they have this sorted out they can build a recruitment plan.
There's no reason why QF mainline can't go back to a growth plan from the end of the year, but I guess it'd need to make some reductions in across-the-board costs and methods of operation before it does.
I'd say we'll know more in a few months when fleet and business planning post-SARS has been completed.
Each year's cadet courses are usually half-half Level 1 and 2. Not sure why NVFR's now a requirement - that might well be a requirement from the participating schools rather than QF, but I really wouldn't know. There are no quotas for each course - they'll take as many people (L1 or 2) as meet the standard they require, and as such the actual numbers and ratios will vary from year to year.
As for the Sep review date, not only will things be a fair bit clearer then from a company point of view, but a new Chief Pilot will start in the first couple of weeks in Sep. As he ultimately gives final employment approval to all pilot applicants, whether DE or cadet, they might well be waiting for him to give the programme the final ok in the light of the general industry situation, and the company recruitment plan, at the time.
Are you applying this year, SSC?
Cheers, ED
(All the above is speculation and general information based on what I've read/can gather. Someone closer to things might well be able to shed a bit more light on both the cadet programme and the current company situation).
The airline's reached a transition point, there's no doubt about it. Over the next few months in particular they'll be making some important decisions about their short and longer term direction, including fleet planning, and once they have this sorted out they can build a recruitment plan.
There's no reason why QF mainline can't go back to a growth plan from the end of the year, but I guess it'd need to make some reductions in across-the-board costs and methods of operation before it does.
I'd say we'll know more in a few months when fleet and business planning post-SARS has been completed.
Each year's cadet courses are usually half-half Level 1 and 2. Not sure why NVFR's now a requirement - that might well be a requirement from the participating schools rather than QF, but I really wouldn't know. There are no quotas for each course - they'll take as many people (L1 or 2) as meet the standard they require, and as such the actual numbers and ratios will vary from year to year.
As for the Sep review date, not only will things be a fair bit clearer then from a company point of view, but a new Chief Pilot will start in the first couple of weeks in Sep. As he ultimately gives final employment approval to all pilot applicants, whether DE or cadet, they might well be waiting for him to give the programme the final ok in the light of the general industry situation, and the company recruitment plan, at the time.
Are you applying this year, SSC?
Cheers, ED
(All the above is speculation and general information based on what I've read/can gather. Someone closer to things might well be able to shed a bit more light on both the cadet programme and the current company situation).
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ExcessData
Yeah I am definitely thinking about applying this year. I am at a point where I have to decide if I will go all the way, get my CPL and apply for QF - or hold off until next year.
I think the decision has been already made in my mind, regardless what happens with QF I have always wanted to be an instructor, so if nothing happens I will just do my instructor rating over the Christmas holidays, then begin the job hunt!
Cheers,
SSC
Yeah I am definitely thinking about applying this year. I am at a point where I have to decide if I will go all the way, get my CPL and apply for QF - or hold off until next year.
I think the decision has been already made in my mind, regardless what happens with QF I have always wanted to be an instructor, so if nothing happens I will just do my instructor rating over the Christmas holidays, then begin the job hunt!
Cheers,
SSC
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Re:
Are there any maximum limitations?
Yes. If you hold an Instrument Rating you will not be eligible to apply for the Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program. Additionally, if you do not hold an Instrument Rating but have completed some or all of the practical training towards an Instrument Rating you may be at a disadvantage in the selection process.
Disgraceful! Since when does having a qualification that a QF Pilot requires, make you over qualified?
Qantas. Do you need future Captains to fly your aircraft or not?
Why penalise an applicant that has done the hard yards?
Kaos
Are there any maximum limitations?
Yes. If you hold an Instrument Rating you will not be eligible to apply for the Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program. Additionally, if you do not hold an Instrument Rating but have completed some or all of the practical training towards an Instrument Rating you may be at a disadvantage in the selection process.
Disgraceful! Since when does having a qualification that a QF Pilot requires, make you over qualified?
Qantas. Do you need future Captains to fly your aircraft or not?
Why penalise an applicant that has done the hard yards?
Kaos
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KAOS, I think the reason they do this is because QF would like to train their cadets IFR with an emphasis on multi-crew IFR ops. CASA trained and approved IFR pilots is all single pilot stuff and so would a QF cadet undergoing his/her IFR training but they will put emphasis on multi-crew and large a/c ops because as you know its easier to teach a new dog tricks of the trade then it is an old one. I think this is relevant to cadets from the very get-go becasue of the limited flight time experience they are entering the company with.
I agree with you that its not fair that IFR pilots are over-qualified to join in the cadet program, but if there is a reason then the above may be it.
How does this sound to you??
Mr Garrison.
I agree with you that its not fair that IFR pilots are over-qualified to join in the cadet program, but if there is a reason then the above may be it.
How does this sound to you??
Mr Garrison.
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Xcred,
Without getting into the yearly cadet vs DE showdown, every c&t guy I've met in the big Q seems to think that after a year or so in the company, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference in flying, multi-crew procedures and airmanship between the average straight-out-of-GA DE entrant, and the average cadet. I've sure it'd be different, however, comparing an ex-AN driver with 1000s of hours to the above groups... That's not to say there aren't some ordinary cadets around, but if you were to try to say that there aren't some ordinary DE guys there either then you'd be sadly mistaken.
Granted - those in GA have done the hard yards, and deserve every success they get in the airline. Every cadet I've met, however, would have done exactly the same thing (gone to GA) had they not made the course. They were lucky enough to get in, and find a way to fund it (just, in most cases), and have worked hard ever since. As a result of getting in with fewer hours than their DE colleagues, they spend a couple more years with two stripes on their epaulettes - DE guys might get a promotion after 6 months, whereas most of the cadet S/Os are there for 3-4 years.
As 'softon's mum' once put it:
"Some GA pilots are good some are bad.
Some Cadets are good some are bad.
Some air force pilots are good some are bad.
Some people with heaps of experience are good, some are bad....."
The awful truth, I'm afraid.
Good luck to all those applying this year.
Cheers, ED
Without getting into the yearly cadet vs DE showdown, every c&t guy I've met in the big Q seems to think that after a year or so in the company, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference in flying, multi-crew procedures and airmanship between the average straight-out-of-GA DE entrant, and the average cadet. I've sure it'd be different, however, comparing an ex-AN driver with 1000s of hours to the above groups... That's not to say there aren't some ordinary cadets around, but if you were to try to say that there aren't some ordinary DE guys there either then you'd be sadly mistaken.
Granted - those in GA have done the hard yards, and deserve every success they get in the airline. Every cadet I've met, however, would have done exactly the same thing (gone to GA) had they not made the course. They were lucky enough to get in, and find a way to fund it (just, in most cases), and have worked hard ever since. As a result of getting in with fewer hours than their DE colleagues, they spend a couple more years with two stripes on their epaulettes - DE guys might get a promotion after 6 months, whereas most of the cadet S/Os are there for 3-4 years.
As 'softon's mum' once put it:
"Some GA pilots are good some are bad.
Some Cadets are good some are bad.
Some air force pilots are good some are bad.
Some people with heaps of experience are good, some are bad....."
The awful truth, I'm afraid.
Good luck to all those applying this year.
Cheers, ED
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Mr Garrison
As far as teaching a new/old dog tricks. This entirely depends on the person. The ADF does it every day with new pilots and Qantas has done it with past Cadet programs with not much more of a problem than the current system.
xkred27
Your contribution to this topic is very dissapointing!
Maybe there are stage 2 applicants that have done it hard?
Your pathetic input on the "cadets of late" is uncalled for. There happens to be some very motivated and bright people in the program, that will some day make great Captains, and are an asset to Qantas.
Kaos
As far as teaching a new/old dog tricks. This entirely depends on the person. The ADF does it every day with new pilots and Qantas has done it with past Cadet programs with not much more of a problem than the current system.
xkred27
Your contribution to this topic is very dissapointing!
Maybe there are stage 2 applicants that have done it hard?
Your pathetic input on the "cadets of late" is uncalled for. There happens to be some very motivated and bright people in the program, that will some day make great Captains, and are an asset to Qantas.
Kaos
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radar o'reilly,
No. I was in the same situation last year, and my application was rejected because of this reason.
Any IFR training at all, does go against you, and basically eliminates you from running for a position.
Quote from QF website:
Are there any maximum limitations?
Yes. If you hold an Instrument Rating you will not be eligible to apply for the Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program. Additionally, if you do not hold an Instrument Rating but have completed some or all of the practical training towards an Instrument Rating you may be at a disadvantage in the selection process. Completion of some or all of the Airline Transport Pilot (Aeroplane) Licence or Instrument Rating theory subjects will not disadvantage you in the selection process.
No. I was in the same situation last year, and my application was rejected because of this reason.
Any IFR training at all, does go against you, and basically eliminates you from running for a position.
Quote from QF website:
Are there any maximum limitations?
Yes. If you hold an Instrument Rating you will not be eligible to apply for the Qantas Cadet Pilot Training Program. Additionally, if you do not hold an Instrument Rating but have completed some or all of the practical training towards an Instrument Rating you may be at a disadvantage in the selection process. Completion of some or all of the Airline Transport Pilot (Aeroplane) Licence or Instrument Rating theory subjects will not disadvantage you in the selection process.
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check out the Qantas website for some samples there....... go to your local aviation shop and buy a book on airline recruiting procedures. They sell em at Concept Aviation - YSBK.
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Mr Garrison,
With regards to putting emphasis on multi-crew and heavy jet operations during the cadet's CIR training, it doesn't happen. I've had a bit to do with one of the schools who trains the cadets and the CIR is purely single pilot ops in a light twin with a TAS of around 150 kts.
The multi-crew phase of their training is tackled towards the end of the course, which is where some of the heavy jet ops come into play. With that in mind, it makes you wonder why they prefer somebody with no IFR experience. Maybe they just like to monitor the progress of the cadet during this phase of training, or the nominated school has a syllabus that appeals to QF. Your guess is a good as mine.
Cheers
CC
With regards to putting emphasis on multi-crew and heavy jet operations during the cadet's CIR training, it doesn't happen. I've had a bit to do with one of the schools who trains the cadets and the CIR is purely single pilot ops in a light twin with a TAS of around 150 kts.
The multi-crew phase of their training is tackled towards the end of the course, which is where some of the heavy jet ops come into play. With that in mind, it makes you wonder why they prefer somebody with no IFR experience. Maybe they just like to monitor the progress of the cadet during this phase of training, or the nominated school has a syllabus that appeals to QF. Your guess is a good as mine.
Cheers
CC