Chieftain down in NZ
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Thanks for the gen, stillalbatross. If I had read the report I would probably still be posting questions about it today.
Thanks, S2K
For what it is worth try your ELT/ELB next test schedule with no aerial.
It will still work, just not as well. Even with time-ex batteries, from inside a box inside a building.
Many folks that store/sell them have found out that one the hard way and keep a scanner nearby to catch any inadvertant activations on the shelf or during maintenance.
Which we all knew anyway. Except the media. Which brings me to my next point.....
Thanks, S2K
For what it is worth try your ELT/ELB next test schedule with no aerial.
It will still work, just not as well. Even with time-ex batteries, from inside a box inside a building.
Many folks that store/sell them have found out that one the hard way and keep a scanner nearby to catch any inadvertant activations on the shelf or during maintenance.
Which we all knew anyway. Except the media. Which brings me to my next point.....
Join Date: Jul 2000
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The TAIC investigator has stated that the ELT didn't worked due damage suffered in the crash. Having lookied at the pic's in the paper it's a miracle that 2 people surrived.
Site is about 2km off the threshold, a/c has hit a tall popular tree then hit the ground, skidded over a paddock couple hundred mtrs and impacted trees at the end destroying it. Weather had been flithy all day (2000m DZ OVC200) but everyone had been getting in,forecast to settle to fog.
Condolances to all.
Site is about 2km off the threshold, a/c has hit a tall popular tree then hit the ground, skidded over a paddock couple hundred mtrs and impacted trees at the end destroying it. Weather had been flithy all day (2000m DZ OVC200) but everyone had been getting in,forecast to settle to fog.
Condolances to all.
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A sad day of aviation.Mike (the pilot) gave me my first break in aviation, which I will always be grateful for.
Rest in Peace Banners, and condolences to all involved
Kiwi Flyer (in Africa)
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It has been suggested that there was a prolific use of Mobile Phones.........sms.........messaging from some of the Pax onboard this Flight..............given the position of the wreckage I wonder if there was any interferance to the LLZ or GP indications on the instruments..
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I doubt the cellphones affected the altimeter.
Don't listen to the media, use your head.
Edit [spelling, duh!]
Don't listen to the media, use your head.
Edit [spelling, duh!]
Last edited by Capt W E Johns; 10th Jun 2003 at 14:05.
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That's the point - no matter what indications are being displayed by the ILS glideslope indicator, the important instrument in this case is the altimeter. If the aircraft on this particular approach had not descended below DA it could not possibly have CFIT.
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I can see that try as I might I am not getting my message thru..........Lets just say that...supposing the sms activity resulted in erroneous..G/S indications.........this in turn could have caused some confusion or doubt as to situational awareness..in the PIC s mind....all this happening in Zero Vis..close to the ground...at an Airport that is not at sea level anyway....all of a sudden you have the recepe for missreading an Altimiter...or ...having the accident.
I am using my head....as you so kindly suggested!!please try and use yours !
Besides its only my opinion on Interferance caused by supernumery electronics.......It can and does happen ....!!
I am using my head....as you so kindly suggested!!please try and use yours !
Besides its only my opinion on Interferance caused by supernumery electronics.......It can and does happen ....!!
I agree with Mr Johns.
by the time you get down to the business end of the slope, the altimeter is the goodness.
200' DA is still a 200' DA. There is NO WAY in the world a TXT message would affect an altimeter of the like found in that type of aircraft.
my 2 cents: the poor old fella(52 no spring chicken) became incapacitated.
the problem with this theory is that the guy beside him- surely he would have spotted the pilot check out. but it could have been quite dark. and they would have picked up on this in the autopsy?
I'm sorry but it just looks like the plane flew down the slope, then near the end dipped below and flew into the ground. all systems are go.
if the guy was flying with a little nose down trim, for what ever reason-some people might like to have some "feel" in the stick, i have noticed various people fly with the a/c slightly out of trim, this could account for a deviation from the glide slope once he moved on.
unbelievable that the two guys survived. and one might be checking out of hospital tomorrow!!
mindblowing stuff.
by the time you get down to the business end of the slope, the altimeter is the goodness.
200' DA is still a 200' DA. There is NO WAY in the world a TXT message would affect an altimeter of the like found in that type of aircraft.
my 2 cents: the poor old fella(52 no spring chicken) became incapacitated.
the problem with this theory is that the guy beside him- surely he would have spotted the pilot check out. but it could have been quite dark. and they would have picked up on this in the autopsy?
I'm sorry but it just looks like the plane flew down the slope, then near the end dipped below and flew into the ground. all systems are go.
if the guy was flying with a little nose down trim, for what ever reason-some people might like to have some "feel" in the stick, i have noticed various people fly with the a/c slightly out of trim, this could account for a deviation from the glide slope once he moved on.
unbelievable that the two guys survived. and one might be checking out of hospital tomorrow!!
mindblowing stuff.
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I too did a couple of flights for Messers Bannerman mid 90's down to Queenstown and Mt. Cook so obviously a bit sad to hear of someone I knew comming seriously unstuck.
Does anyone know the nationality of the passengers onboard who passed away?
I hope they aren't Japanese as they cop their fare share of GA accidents downunder.
Does anyone know the nationality of the passengers onboard who passed away?
I hope they aren't Japanese as they cop their fare share of GA accidents downunder.
Bombay,
I am not second guessing anybody, nor do I intend to.
I simply do not like the idea of the plane crashing due to a txt message.
point taken though, it was not my intent to be minimalistic towards the pilots attributes, skills and reputation.
I am not second guessing anybody, nor do I intend to.
I simply do not like the idea of the plane crashing due to a txt message.
point taken though, it was not my intent to be minimalistic towards the pilots attributes, skills and reputation.
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Join Date: May 2003
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Not a good time to speculate about this incidenty. There are many factors that may have contributed to the crash and these will be made apparent in due course. Its not fair on all involved to create unfounded theories and rumour.
Condolenses to all involved..
Condolenses to all involved..
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Could someone please update the details on this one so far please?
It did make the news over here very briefly.
Conflicting details in the early stages somewhat confusing.
All pers accounted for?
Distance from airport? (some say 1km, some 7km)
Actual wx? (some say fog, some low cloud)
Thanks
It did make the news over here very briefly.
Conflicting details in the early stages somewhat confusing.
All pers accounted for?
Distance from airport? (some say 1km, some 7km)
Actual wx? (some say fog, some low cloud)
Thanks
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heard on sunday that the elt did go off after the initial contact (with the poplar trees or the ground not sure) but them aerial broke and therefore reduced the range and then was destroyed when the plane contacted the trees at the end of the paddock.
The 20 km radius may well be a 20 km square area- pretty easy if you take a 2 km either side of center line for 5 km along the approach area.
What avionics did the chieftan have in it, anyone...
Yeah, whats up with the investigation time, it's not like they have heaps of accidents all the time.
How are the survivors doing ?
The 20 km radius may well be a 20 km square area- pretty easy if you take a 2 km either side of center line for 5 km along the approach area.
What avionics did the chieftan have in it, anyone...
Yeah, whats up with the investigation time, it's not like they have heaps of accidents all the time.
How are the survivors doing ?
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From some stats I was shown that I think Otago Uni did, you had a approx 6 times greater chance of winding up dead having boarded an aircraft on air transport ops in NZ than you had in the UK between 1982-'97. Now I understand that statistics can be made to show anything (and got worse on pax numbers alone), while this was off number of pax travelling and sectors vs. total number of fatalities.
There is a proportion of NZ pilots who have never flown anywhere else (like, say, Europe) who firmly believe we have the most demanding environment out there. And when you have a look at some of the air accident circumstances in NZ it would appear the slant is more towards basic incompetence than bad luck (multiple birdstrikes etc.) Do we think we're a lot better than we really are and is this ever going to change?
There is a proportion of NZ pilots who have never flown anywhere else (like, say, Europe) who firmly believe we have the most demanding environment out there. And when you have a look at some of the air accident circumstances in NZ it would appear the slant is more towards basic incompetence than bad luck (multiple birdstrikes etc.) Do we think we're a lot better than we really are and is this ever going to change?
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Stillalbatross - my missus was reading your post over my shoulder and it reaffirmed her belief that I'll die flying. I know this wasn't your intention, but it sure as hell cause some disturbance in my abode!
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NZ Crash Updates
Air Adventures Chieftain : 2 survivors. One released from hospital and one still in with serious injuries. Memorial service held for 7 dead Crop & Food staff (and pilot).
More bad news.
Rand KR-2 down near Blenheim a few days ago (Pilot/Owner killed)
Rans S6 Coyote down near Rangiora this evening (pilot and passenger killed)
The Coyote belonged to the local Microlight Club so no details have been released about who was on board or what happened.
It seems in both (separate) incidents, the aircraft were manoeuvering at low level when control was lost for whatever reason. Both described by witnesses as "nose-diving into the ground".
News footage of the Rans looks like impact was almost vertical. Crew compartment completely destroyed. Nasty.
More bad news.
Rand KR-2 down near Blenheim a few days ago (Pilot/Owner killed)
Rans S6 Coyote down near Rangiora this evening (pilot and passenger killed)
The Coyote belonged to the local Microlight Club so no details have been released about who was on board or what happened.
It seems in both (separate) incidents, the aircraft were manoeuvering at low level when control was lost for whatever reason. Both described by witnesses as "nose-diving into the ground".
News footage of the Rans looks like impact was almost vertical. Crew compartment completely destroyed. Nasty.
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Lethalweapon.
An astute observation. Palmerston North forecast freezing at A060 and no doubt lowering to the south, with apparently a southerly front forecast. Crew well aware of this problem and filed via PPN TR CC to give a wider useable cruising envelope. Not aware of de-icing equipment carried, but if like majority of such aircraft probably disposed of to give a greater payload. Will never be known if it was a cause, to my way of thinking it is a definite possibility, but, after two hours to find the site, after all it was a whole 2 miles off the threshold, any ice would have been well and truly gone.
Prospector
An astute observation. Palmerston North forecast freezing at A060 and no doubt lowering to the south, with apparently a southerly front forecast. Crew well aware of this problem and filed via PPN TR CC to give a wider useable cruising envelope. Not aware of de-icing equipment carried, but if like majority of such aircraft probably disposed of to give a greater payload. Will never be known if it was a cause, to my way of thinking it is a definite possibility, but, after two hours to find the site, after all it was a whole 2 miles off the threshold, any ice would have been well and truly gone.
Prospector