Command - how much do you really want one??
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Command - how much do you really want one??
Heard through the grapevine a few weeks ago about a recent intake DJ F/O that went to someone in authority and enquired as to what is taking him so long to get a command (6 months or thereabouts)!
He was quite disturbed about the slow progression, which combined with his considerable experience should almost automatically assure him of a left hand seat!!
The management pilot (a thorough gentleman apparently) then was very polite and told this person that he was in a position to offer him an immediate command - in Melbourne!
The obviously highly motivated command aspirant almost cried when confronted with the prospect of having to move interstate - and to Victoria no less.
Naturally this person declined the offer very sheepishly.
Now if you were the person that hands out promotions what would be your impressions about this person and if they are really motivated toward a command?
He was quite disturbed about the slow progression, which combined with his considerable experience should almost automatically assure him of a left hand seat!!
The management pilot (a thorough gentleman apparently) then was very polite and told this person that he was in a position to offer him an immediate command - in Melbourne!
The obviously highly motivated command aspirant almost cried when confronted with the prospect of having to move interstate - and to Victoria no less.
Naturally this person declined the offer very sheepishly.
Now if you were the person that hands out promotions what would be your impressions about this person and if they are really motivated toward a command?
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Never ceases to amaze me about the attitude of some pilots.
If this guy really wanted a command,was deadly serious and thought he was up to the task then he should have accepted the promotion and posting.
Walking into an office enquiring as to your command expectations,being offered a position and walking out with egg on your face doesnt seem to cut it in my book.
If true then this is a cop-out and Im sure the gent in management would have thought the same.
But then again you never know,commands may dry up and he may be an F/O to quite a forseeable period.
The lesson here is (and experience dictates) if offered a command and you are up to the challenge - accept it.
If this guy really wanted a command,was deadly serious and thought he was up to the task then he should have accepted the promotion and posting.
Walking into an office enquiring as to your command expectations,being offered a position and walking out with egg on your face doesnt seem to cut it in my book.
If true then this is a cop-out and Im sure the gent in management would have thought the same.
But then again you never know,commands may dry up and he may be an F/O to quite a forseeable period.
The lesson here is (and experience dictates) if offered a command and you are up to the challenge - accept it.
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Kaptin M, I apologise for not getting back earlier but have been dealing with family problems.
If my style of writing sounds or looks similar to others to quote a famous lawyer "The resemblance is purely coincidental".
My style of writing has always been well spaced,well worded,uncluttered and hopefully well thought out so it is more eye-pleasing and easier to read.
Nothing worse than reading unbroken lines of drivel.
If others wish to adopt the same technique then I encourage it!
If I had a few less years under my belt and less broken bones I would hop on a flight and come to Japan to have a beer with you but that is just not an opportunity at the moment Kap!!
Sionara and stay well. 1013.
If my style of writing sounds or looks similar to others to quote a famous lawyer "The resemblance is purely coincidental".
My style of writing has always been well spaced,well worded,uncluttered and hopefully well thought out so it is more eye-pleasing and easier to read.
Nothing worse than reading unbroken lines of drivel.
If others wish to adopt the same technique then I encourage it!
If I had a few less years under my belt and less broken bones I would hop on a flight and come to Japan to have a beer with you but that is just not an opportunity at the moment Kap!!
Sionara and stay well. 1013.
There is more than a few pilots that confuse their ability with their ego.
Sad thing is I suspect I know this person sounds just like something they would do. In fact not long after (about a month) from being checked to line was already enquiring as to how long before they got a command........................
Six months from check to line means that they would have completed 1 cyclic maybe two. With all of nearly 5000 hrs total time they must be a SKY GOD!
Trouble is the squeeky wheel gets the most oil!
Servo.
Sad thing is I suspect I know this person sounds just like something they would do. In fact not long after (about a month) from being checked to line was already enquiring as to how long before they got a command........................
Six months from check to line means that they would have completed 1 cyclic maybe two. With all of nearly 5000 hrs total time they must be a SKY GOD!
Trouble is the squeeky wheel gets the most oil!
Servo.
Last edited by Servo; 6th Jun 2003 at 13:34.
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Imagine having to give up your life style and sacrifice for a command with a growing airline. The indignitly of having to live in a major city and fly near new aircraft must be an assault to ones ego.
What the hell has happened to australian aviation? Bring back national service!!
What the hell has happened to australian aviation? Bring back national service!!
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"...if you were the person that hands out promotions what would be your impressions about this person and if th..."
Sorry Timmeeee, I don't do impressions but I'm with the comment upstairs.
Too many haven't earnt there place and have had an easy ride, which is very much evident in such attitudes, as shown in the example you gave and of which I have heard of personnally.
Sorry Timmeeee, I don't do impressions but I'm with the comment upstairs.
Too many haven't earnt there place and have had an easy ride, which is very much evident in such attitudes, as shown in the example you gave and of which I have heard of personnally.
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Playing devils advocate for a moment and not knowing the bloke in question ...
... maybe he's got a wife in a good job who gives him a hard time whenever the subject of moving (again?) rears its head. Maybe he's got 3 or more kids half way through school giving Dad the same amount of grief. Maybe he likes Brisbane.
One can end up becoming a slave to aviation as we're all so eager to climb the ladder but if he politely declines and holds out for a Brissy command, don't see the problem with that.
----
Shaker One
... maybe he's got a wife in a good job who gives him a hard time whenever the subject of moving (again?) rears its head. Maybe he's got 3 or more kids half way through school giving Dad the same amount of grief. Maybe he likes Brisbane.
One can end up becoming a slave to aviation as we're all so eager to climb the ladder but if he politely declines and holds out for a Brissy command, don't see the problem with that.
----
Shaker One
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S1 & JB,
I agree wholeheartedly........many pilots out there would do well to temper their selfish attitudes & enthusiasm for the benefit of their personal agendas, and direct some due consideration towards their loving and supporting family members.
That is the very reason one should, assuming their skills and experience are up to it.........take the Bl**dy Command!
The increased level of employability and obvious financial benefit one gets from jet command time would do the most important people in his/her life absolutely no harm!!!!
Then again, as has been said........he could just leave the upgrade for someone who really wants it???
If and when VB rings my phone, I'll not be caring what basing is on offer.
It's not like its going to be Timber Ck or Borroloola, eh Bruddha!!!
My 2c
I agree wholeheartedly........many pilots out there would do well to temper their selfish attitudes & enthusiasm for the benefit of their personal agendas, and direct some due consideration towards their loving and supporting family members.
That is the very reason one should, assuming their skills and experience are up to it.........take the Bl**dy Command!
The increased level of employability and obvious financial benefit one gets from jet command time would do the most important people in his/her life absolutely no harm!!!!
Then again, as has been said........he could just leave the upgrade for someone who really wants it???
If and when VB rings my phone, I'll not be caring what basing is on offer.
It's not like its going to be Timber Ck or Borroloola, eh Bruddha!!!
My 2c
Nunc est bibendum
The other side of the coin...
I had the seniorority to get a command with AO in Cairns. (Whether Quinny would've had me is another issue entirely! 
) I didn't even both applying and there is only one reason.
When I raised the issue with my wife of the possibility of going North she asked me to explain the 'net benefit' and the employability, pay, lifestyle all got trotted out. I was certainly keen to go and worked VERY hard at trying to sell it to her.
However, at the end of the day I didn't apply. My wife is close to our family here, close to friends, well established Church, kids about to start school, etc. I already have heaps of fun at work and I was going to my family away from EVERYTHING that is important to them just so that I could go and have even MORE fun?? I don't think so! Bless her she still insists that we can go if I want to but there is only one thing in life more important than family and it certainly ain't a command.
) I didn't even both applying and there is only one reason.When I raised the issue with my wife of the possibility of going North she asked me to explain the 'net benefit' and the employability, pay, lifestyle all got trotted out. I was certainly keen to go and worked VERY hard at trying to sell it to her.
However, at the end of the day I didn't apply. My wife is close to our family here, close to friends, well established Church, kids about to start school, etc. I already have heaps of fun at work and I was going to my family away from EVERYTHING that is important to them just so that I could go and have even MORE fun?? I don't think so! Bless her she still insists that we can go if I want to but there is only one thing in life more important than family and it certainly ain't a command.
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I dont know the person involved, but there are FO's in DJ who dont need any more jet command time - they have more than enough to make them employable elsewhere, should they choose to leave Aus. (again - no thanks)
Its now all about lifestyle, where you want to live, kids schooling, wife being happy, no more moving, did I say wife being happy?
Sure, anyone not being in the above position would definately take a jet command anywhere. So maybe the guy needs some slack?
Its now all about lifestyle, where you want to live, kids schooling, wife being happy, no more moving, did I say wife being happy?
Sure, anyone not being in the above position would definately take a jet command anywhere. So maybe the guy needs some slack?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
A command will certainly make you more employable - IF you have the minimum number of lhs hours the employer demands! eg, when I joined SQ in 1990, they would put you in the lhs of a 74, if you had 1,000 hours command time. Before I had finished my (5 year) F/O contract, the requirement had jumped to 3,000 hours, simply because of the oversupply of experienced pilots.
As someone said earlier, "horses for courses".
If you have strong personal commitments in the city where you currently reside, then deciding to move interstate for your command, and saying "To hell with everybody else", is a tad selfish, imho.
Kids at school, aging parents, a HOME that you have worked to establish - some things are intrinsically far more valuable than an extra gold bar.
Aviation does tend to make all of us who work within the industry, "prostitutes" to our profession - I clearly remember Jim Spark, the founder of NASA (as in Cessnock...not the astronaut version) telling my wife to be many Summers ago, that a pilot will always have only one wife whom he will obey unquestioningly - and that it would NOT be HER!!
Work to live - don't live to work!
Flying, as a profession, is a means to an end (providing a lifestyle for you, and your dependents) - and NOT the end itself (in spite of the many years it took you to get there!!!).
As someone said earlier, "horses for courses".
If you have strong personal commitments in the city where you currently reside, then deciding to move interstate for your command, and saying "To hell with everybody else", is a tad selfish, imho.
Kids at school, aging parents, a HOME that you have worked to establish - some things are intrinsically far more valuable than an extra gold bar.
Aviation does tend to make all of us who work within the industry, "prostitutes" to our profession - I clearly remember Jim Spark, the founder of NASA (as in Cessnock...not the astronaut version) telling my wife to be many Summers ago, that a pilot will always have only one wife whom he will obey unquestioningly - and that it would NOT be HER!!
Work to live - don't live to work!
Flying, as a profession, is a means to an end (providing a lifestyle for you, and your dependents) - and NOT the end itself (in spite of the many years it took you to get there!!!).
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Ah so true Kaptin M but what do you say 2 years down the track when 'she who must be obeyed' wants a new Mosman mummy-wagon and complains that 'if you took the command you could have afforded it'?
As my guru so fondly used to state "well ****** me with a fish-fork"!
You guessed it, the unwinable argument people.
And dont even think of going near that one.
As my guru so fondly used to state "well ****** me with a fish-fork"!
You guessed it, the unwinable argument people.
And dont even think of going near that one.
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Yes, its easy for some to say "work to live", and not "live to work" - the one's who landed a job very quickly in an airline without ever having to leave their home town.
If I (and most others) were to apply that theory (put family/loved one's first), I would have never got my first job, let alone turbine command, or even multi engine command.
If I (and most others) were to apply that theory (put family/loved one's first), I would have never got my first job, let alone turbine command, or even multi engine command.
Last edited by Bagot_Community_Locator; 11th Jun 2003 at 05:33.
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Last time I checked, it was a democracy - hence, you can wait until a position or location is more suitable to your life/wants/needs. This does not reflect upon ones' 'motivation', but life has many parts, excluding career.
Ahh, no wonder pilots are such self centred, self obsessed and self loving bastards. You get rewarded for it!!
My struggle, my heartaches, my career.
Strike up the violinist.....
Ahh, no wonder pilots are such self centred, self obsessed and self loving bastards. You get rewarded for it!!
My struggle, my heartaches, my career.
Strike up the violinist.....