When to call?
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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When to call?
After a number of near misses at entry points to GAAP and controled aerdromes, it frustrates me when people call up when they have not yet reached the reporting point. If you say you are over some place you should be there not a half a mile west or north of it. When is the correct time to call inboud or request a clearance? 
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Toohey:
I gather you may be eluding to Bankstown, but any GAAP would be the same.
GAAP entry points can be a bottle neck. Our policy (way back when) was to call as we “approached” the entry point, (the tower at the time preferred this). It gave you (and the tower) plenty of time to sight and orientate other traffic. If you call on top of it (over the radio tower at BY for instance) – and everybody does the same, it gives you very little chance to sight traffic and avoid them, I am not surprised that you have had a few near misses. Be sensible and be alert was the message then and would stand today.
"Approached" was usually within a mile or less of the entry point.
I gather you may be eluding to Bankstown, but any GAAP would be the same.
GAAP entry points can be a bottle neck. Our policy (way back when) was to call as we “approached” the entry point, (the tower at the time preferred this). It gave you (and the tower) plenty of time to sight and orientate other traffic. If you call on top of it (over the radio tower at BY for instance) – and everybody does the same, it gives you very little chance to sight traffic and avoid them, I am not surprised that you have had a few near misses. Be sensible and be alert was the message then and would stand today.
"Approached" was usually within a mile or less of the entry point.
On a busy day it can also be dictated on when you can get a word in. Usually still within a 1/2 mile of the reporting point though.
What also ps$$es me off is people going outbound over an inbound approach point at the same altitude as inbound traffic.. I saw three aircraft do that when coming back into MB from the avalon scareshow. I have no farking idea what they were thinking.
Bevan..
What also ps$$es me off is people going outbound over an inbound approach point at the same altitude as inbound traffic.. I saw three aircraft do that when coming back into MB from the avalon scareshow. I have no farking idea what they were thinking.
Bevan..
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I really do not think near misses in this situation is really a position reporting problem by that I mean look at what happens if multiple pilots are inbound and do give their position report at the correct time and PLACE and all eta are exactly the same what allows you to advoid a collision "your eyes". time for a story inbound one day 4 planes at an entry point within 30 secs of each other all except me calling either early or late the only problem was with ATC clearing people into the circuit in the wrong order. Only took one situationally aware pilot to clarify the situation.
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Had one of many scares lately just about to call inbound GAAP when another A/C calls inbound same point, looking above and below without altering coarse, advise the tower we are in the same position, the other A/C advises that they are 1 mile to our 6 o'clock as it takes their students that long to get the call out. THANKS. See post What English is required? 
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If calling at an approach point and you are over head you would call at that point. If still 1/2 mile away wouldnt the call be approaching the point. If this word was included in a large number of situations i have been in it would have saved a lot of confusion.
Spin Doc been in a lot of times via approach points when there are 4 or so aircraft at that point at the same time and had no problems to. Its when you have some one that doesnt know whats going on or cant speak english that creates problems.
Spin Doc been in a lot of times via approach points when there are 4 or so aircraft at that point at the same time and had no problems to. Its when you have some one that doesnt know whats going on or cant speak english that creates problems.
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Distance & Bearing????
Would it not be easier if you gave distance & bearing to/from the reporting point to allow everyone an easier time.
If a couple of aircraft are close to the same point at the same time a "...half mile north of BY, 1000' ..." and the next was futher back eg. ".... 1 mile north west of BY, 1100' ..." then all concerned (ATC, PIC's ) would have a better situational awareness, allows ATC better flow control etc...
It is easy to teach the student etc to look at the DI to work out what direction they are approaching a point from ( Bottom of the DI is the direction you are approaching from).
Having survived some horrendous flights into and out of Ardmore, NZ when it was the busiest GA airfield in Australiasia this was common practice and appeared to work fine.
S2K
If a couple of aircraft are close to the same point at the same time a "...half mile north of BY, 1000' ..." and the next was futher back eg. ".... 1 mile north west of BY, 1100' ..." then all concerned (ATC, PIC's ) would have a better situational awareness, allows ATC better flow control etc...
It is easy to teach the student etc to look at the DI to work out what direction they are approaching a point from ( Bottom of the DI is the direction you are approaching from).
Having survived some horrendous flights into and out of Ardmore, NZ when it was the busiest GA airfield in Australiasia this was common practice and appeared to work fine.
S2K
