More on huge circuits at Moorabbin/Point Cook
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
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Currently train at YMMB, would agree with pretty much everything said in this thread.
The school in question, i believe, also has no concept of altering their circuit pattens to take into account traffic, wind or towers instructions.
It's bl#$dy stupid and sometimes bl%*dy dangerous
yet this school seem to be above the regulations and laws, the rest of us abide by!
The school in question, i believe, also has no concept of altering their circuit pattens to take into account traffic, wind or towers instructions.
It's bl#$dy stupid and sometimes bl%*dy dangerous
yet this school seem to be above the regulations and laws, the rest of us abide by!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
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Apologies to all
I'd kept my tongue well bitten a year ago when all this was going on.
I should have known better this time, but rose to the bait (moment of weakness).
DIVOSH!
I should have known better this time, but rose to the bait (moment of weakness).
DIVOSH!
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I as a general rule, fly the circuit to be within gliding distance at all times! and the aircraft i fly will reach 1000 Ft AGL before even needing to turn crosswind or within the aerodrome boundary. and there is no reason wh you cant begin a slow descent on downwind. some instructors have insisted i remain at 1000 AGL until the turn base is completed. My usual circuit at YHOX or YSBK will begin descent at late downwind, turn base approx 800 ft, final at 500.
In my initial training, in a Piper warrior/ archer and later Arrow, i was taught to keep the runway under the wing! about as far out as the taper in the leading edge. if i could see the strip past the wingtip, i was way too wide. Im not sure how some similar measurement would translate to a Cessna.
If i find myself doing a session of circuits with somone doing cross country nav circuits, will will make one the the T&G's a Stop and Go, or if its only myself and the other in the pattern, i will do an orbit on downwind. (with appropriate calls)
If an aircraft with the pattern speeds of a B737 can manage a 1.5 mile circuit, so can any GA aircraft, its all a matter of training!!!
In my initial training, in a Piper warrior/ archer and later Arrow, i was taught to keep the runway under the wing! about as far out as the taper in the leading edge. if i could see the strip past the wingtip, i was way too wide. Im not sure how some similar measurement would translate to a Cessna.
If i find myself doing a session of circuits with somone doing cross country nav circuits, will will make one the the T&G's a Stop and Go, or if its only myself and the other in the pattern, i will do an orbit on downwind. (with appropriate calls)
If an aircraft with the pattern speeds of a B737 can manage a 1.5 mile circuit, so can any GA aircraft, its all a matter of training!!!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
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.......Proper circuit
I like to fly a circuit at least 250 metres out and at least.............high. Crosswind to clear in 30 seconds, but 3 legs flown and out of everybody's road.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Near the Murray River
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For those quoting distances for B737's etc, dont forget a typical jet cicuit height is 1500 ft.
.........and for those getting worked up about someone flying too wide a circuit, why not ask the pilot directly on the radio, or via ATC, if he could a smaller circuit........you never know, he might be happy to oblige?
N2000
.........and for those getting worked up about someone flying too wide a circuit, why not ask the pilot directly on the radio, or via ATC, if he could a smaller circuit........you never know, he might be happy to oblige?
N2000
Join Date: Nov 2003
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And then again
They might not!
Please don't think that some of the more frustrated people here haven't done just that.
ATC at MB have (on occasion) advised aircraft that the circuit pattern that they're flying takes them out of the GAAP CTR.
No effect!
Please don't think that some of the more frustrated people here haven't done just that.
ATC at MB have (on occasion) advised aircraft that the circuit pattern that they're flying takes them out of the GAAP CTR.
No effect!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Melbourne
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di_vosh,
Mate I think you need to get a bit of a grip on reality. Dont work at MB anymore, but if we were a bit wide, i'd let others pass by extending downwind - we're not out there to raise $ by widening the circuit. We also would try to keep time to an absolute min, as to not increase flying training costs. The main problem we would find is solo students going wider due to not being confident to tuck in close to a preceeding aircraft. I would have prob. done the same with 5 aircraft in the cct and only 5 hours experience!
As to your previous comment - hardly deserves a reply, but because a student goes and flys a wider cct, despite what taught - that's somehow my instructing technique - get a grip.
Would be great to meet up and discuss in person, however live in sy now.
Mate I think you need to get a bit of a grip on reality. Dont work at MB anymore, but if we were a bit wide, i'd let others pass by extending downwind - we're not out there to raise $ by widening the circuit. We also would try to keep time to an absolute min, as to not increase flying training costs. The main problem we would find is solo students going wider due to not being confident to tuck in close to a preceeding aircraft. I would have prob. done the same with 5 aircraft in the cct and only 5 hours experience!
As to your previous comment - hardly deserves a reply, but because a student goes and flys a wider cct, despite what taught - that's somehow my instructing technique - get a grip.
Would be great to meet up and discuss in person, however live in sy now.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
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Touched a nerve, did I?
Sorry if I did (Tone on comments can be a difficult thing to get right on an internet forum). Sure, when you're coming down to MB next, PM me and we can discuss in person, if you like.
Without getting too personal, though, the "ATC advice to circuit aircraft" has happened in the past, along with plenty of pilots request to "tighten up circuits" when it is MBZ procedures there.
Cheers,
DIVOSH!
Without getting too personal, though, the "ATC advice to circuit aircraft" has happened in the past, along with plenty of pilots request to "tighten up circuits" when it is MBZ procedures there.
Cheers,
DIVOSH!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Aotearoa
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What is the definition of a cross country, or local, flight? In my day, if someone was doing a "circuit" more than 3nm from the aerodrome, ATC asked them to call rejoining (instead of downwind). Big circuits lead to poor airmanship and generally spoils everyones day.
