AOPA "The Election" (merged)
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It looks like the AOPA forum is back on line @ http://www.aopa.com.au/forum/phpBB2/
I just checked it and looks pretty good.
I just checked it and looks pretty good.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Censored?
AOPA Forum Bandits:
Well it is indeed good news that AOPA has its Forum site going again.
Some questions though:
The caretaker president has expressed his intention to censor the magazine and the AOPA Forum. The guidlines (apart from the obvious defamatory material that will be posted from a certain party in the West) need to be stated. Mr McKeown has stated that material that criticises AOPA will not be published, I assume that this means criticism of himself or any policies of AOPA ? Will criticism of say, Bill Hamilton, be banned but complaints about Marjorie Pagani permitted? Chris McKeown has already exercised heavy censorship of the May Magazine and the Tammany Hall behaviour of Hamilton and his helpers (McKeown, Lyon, Rudd) makes me very suspicious.
Who are the Moderators, is it any of the above dramatis personae?
Pprune is to be congratulated on making this site available for these watershed AOPA discussions.
Attacks on Bill Pike:
The pathetic attacks on Bill Pike and his presidency are unwarranted and seem to come from armchair experts who haven't put up their hand to stand for election.
Bill always had my support, took the job on at a very difficult time when AOPA had been let run down and had a lot of fences to mend. He spent a huge amount of his spare time working hard for AOPA members and found that life is about priorities and balancing urgent issues against daily membership demands. He had to manage renegades on the board subverting his every move, and it is not surprising to note that some of his detractors here are sycophants of these very people.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the members. There were insufficient candidates in 2002 to have an election so the likes of John Lyon found their way onto the board. AOPA gets the respresentatives it deserves.
Russell
Well it is indeed good news that AOPA has its Forum site going again.
Some questions though:
The caretaker president has expressed his intention to censor the magazine and the AOPA Forum. The guidlines (apart from the obvious defamatory material that will be posted from a certain party in the West) need to be stated. Mr McKeown has stated that material that criticises AOPA will not be published, I assume that this means criticism of himself or any policies of AOPA ? Will criticism of say, Bill Hamilton, be banned but complaints about Marjorie Pagani permitted? Chris McKeown has already exercised heavy censorship of the May Magazine and the Tammany Hall behaviour of Hamilton and his helpers (McKeown, Lyon, Rudd) makes me very suspicious.
Who are the Moderators, is it any of the above dramatis personae?
Pprune is to be congratulated on making this site available for these watershed AOPA discussions.
Attacks on Bill Pike:
The pathetic attacks on Bill Pike and his presidency are unwarranted and seem to come from armchair experts who haven't put up their hand to stand for election.
Bill always had my support, took the job on at a very difficult time when AOPA had been let run down and had a lot of fences to mend. He spent a huge amount of his spare time working hard for AOPA members and found that life is about priorities and balancing urgent issues against daily membership demands. He had to manage renegades on the board subverting his every move, and it is not surprising to note that some of his detractors here are sycophants of these very people.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the members. There were insufficient candidates in 2002 to have an election so the likes of John Lyon found their way onto the board. AOPA gets the respresentatives it deserves.
Russell
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ATTACKS ON BILL PIKE
Russell
As one who has posted some constructive criticism of Bill's unnecessary belligerent approach to electronic Forum members I also agree and have said previously that he has worked hard despite not wanting the second term.
But, as you can see from his post prior to yours he has had yet another dip at those who post. Far better for a statesman to keep such thoughts to himself and be considered a statesman!
I think Akkers probably summed up Bill's attitude well.
Bill claims that those on the Forums are not representative of the popular vote. He is probaly correct as the "popular" vote is:
1. Apathy
2. Not renewing at subs time as shown by the membership decline.
My greatest worry with this election is that the 97% apathetic will get the AOPA government, by donkey vote, that they deserve and the decline will continue. I hope time proves me wrong.
Cheers
As one who has posted some constructive criticism of Bill's unnecessary belligerent approach to electronic Forum members I also agree and have said previously that he has worked hard despite not wanting the second term.
But, as you can see from his post prior to yours he has had yet another dip at those who post. Far better for a statesman to keep such thoughts to himself and be considered a statesman!
I think Akkers probably summed up Bill's attitude well.
Bill claims that those on the Forums are not representative of the popular vote. He is probaly correct as the "popular" vote is:
1. Apathy
2. Not renewing at subs time as shown by the membership decline.
My greatest worry with this election is that the 97% apathetic will get the AOPA government, by donkey vote, that they deserve and the decline will continue. I hope time proves me wrong.
Cheers
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Brianh
Bill and I agree on many things and disagree on others.
For instance, when thinking about an AOPA position or policy I would willingly come to this forum and others and read all opinions. If my opinion differed from the majority of AOPA members, I'd go with what i thought that opinion was. If after reading other opinions I still differ, but those I differ with are non-members. Tough!
So in a way it is the same. What I am saying is that Bill is right, the majority on this forum are not members and as such can't expect AOPA to consider their views.
AK
Bill and I agree on many things and disagree on others.
For instance, when thinking about an AOPA position or policy I would willingly come to this forum and others and read all opinions. If my opinion differed from the majority of AOPA members, I'd go with what i thought that opinion was. If after reading other opinions I still differ, but those I differ with are non-members. Tough!
So in a way it is the same. What I am saying is that Bill is right, the majority on this forum are not members and as such can't expect AOPA to consider their views.
AK
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Russell
Some points...
In the mag he says the forum is a better place than the mag for airing gripes about AOPA. Come on... I guess if you want your view across, leave out the balances eh?!
Who's idea was it to moderate the postings on the old AOPA forum?
Marjorie also got in unopposed. Be wary of comments like that, as they can bite back.
Dog
In the mag he says the forum is a better place than the mag for airing gripes about AOPA. Come on... I guess if you want your view across, leave out the balances eh?!
Who's idea was it to moderate the postings on the old AOPA forum?
Marjorie also got in unopposed. Be wary of comments like that, as they can bite back.
Dog
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BACK TO THE MARKETING TEXTS
Akkers
Yes, you do handle this Forum better than some including Bill.
But, if we agree the majority of members of any association, not just AOPA, are "apathetic" then I cannot agree on this point with eirher you or Bill. Two reasons:
1. I'll let you off gently - because if it is recruitment that AOPA needs then it will come from exactly that market segment - the large majority who are NOT members. Therefore, their views are important to formulating strategies to capture their interest and membership.
2. Not so gently for Bill. He was not just talking about this PP forum but the AOPA Forum - where as we know comment was members only. Bill P's comment several days ago was "The posts that you refer to on the AOPA site showed the same pomposity, the same belief that "posters" have some imperious rights not granted ordinary mortals, and yes I treated them with the same disdain."
In the case of the second, sometimes better to keep your (not you Akkers) electronic mouth shut and let people think you are of a superior caste, than to open your mouth and prove their suspicion. The task of a good leader is not to make people respect him but instead respect him and themselves.
Cheers
Yes, you do handle this Forum better than some including Bill.
But, if we agree the majority of members of any association, not just AOPA, are "apathetic" then I cannot agree on this point with eirher you or Bill. Two reasons:
1. I'll let you off gently - because if it is recruitment that AOPA needs then it will come from exactly that market segment - the large majority who are NOT members. Therefore, their views are important to formulating strategies to capture their interest and membership.
2. Not so gently for Bill. He was not just talking about this PP forum but the AOPA Forum - where as we know comment was members only. Bill P's comment several days ago was "The posts that you refer to on the AOPA site showed the same pomposity, the same belief that "posters" have some imperious rights not granted ordinary mortals, and yes I treated them with the same disdain."
In the case of the second, sometimes better to keep your (not you Akkers) electronic mouth shut and let people think you are of a superior caste, than to open your mouth and prove their suspicion. The task of a good leader is not to make people respect him but instead respect him and themselves.
Cheers
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All for one and one for all
Brian
AOPA is its members. It is their dues that produce the magazine, run the website and pay for representation, office staff etc.
Yes, the opinions here are usually valid, but when they are not the opinions of members then those people cannot expect those opinions to carry the same weight with AOPA as the opinions of members. That is a simple fact of life, and what Bill P in his sweet inoffensive way is trying to say
.
From where I sit on my lowly PPL branch I wonder at the opinionated 'professionals' here who have a go at AOPA. They will never make politicians.
With AOPA sitting at just over 4600 members, only about 1500 or so who bother to vote and about 50 who get involved, the organisation is ripe for a bit of 'branch stacking'. If they feel so strongly why can't they get organised and change AOPA to suit themselves.
AK
AOPA is its members. It is their dues that produce the magazine, run the website and pay for representation, office staff etc.
Yes, the opinions here are usually valid, but when they are not the opinions of members then those people cannot expect those opinions to carry the same weight with AOPA as the opinions of members. That is a simple fact of life, and what Bill P in his sweet inoffensive way is trying to say
.From where I sit on my lowly PPL branch I wonder at the opinionated 'professionals' here who have a go at AOPA. They will never make politicians.
With AOPA sitting at just over 4600 members, only about 1500 or so who bother to vote and about 50 who get involved, the organisation is ripe for a bit of 'branch stacking'. If they feel so strongly why can't they get organised and change AOPA to suit themselves.AK
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This election is almost the "last chance" for AOPA.
If the new board cannot work together, to regain the respectibility of those that they must deal with, then it would be my bet that there will be members out there that will want to do something about that. And you can bet they wont wait till the next AGM. Unless this situation is fixed, there may well not be another AGM!
If the new board cannot work together, to regain the respectibility of those that they must deal with, then it would be my bet that there will be members out there that will want to do something about that. And you can bet they wont wait till the next AGM. Unless this situation is fixed, there may well not be another AGM!
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The election closes tomorrow the 9th.
The shouting and the battle has died and the Captains and the Kings depart.
Time to close this thread.
Tha AOPA Forum is now up and running, for members only, for the moment.
www.aopa.com.au
Locking this thread now, but please feel free to keep up the AOPA discussion here on this Forum if you should you wish to.
I am reliably informed the election results will be available on the AOPA website on the 13th.
While you'e there, whether you like what you see or not, if you aren't already a member, become so, then you have the means to make it so.
The shouting and the battle has died and the Captains and the Kings depart.
Time to close this thread.
Tha AOPA Forum is now up and running, for members only, for the moment.
www.aopa.com.au
Locking this thread now, but please feel free to keep up the AOPA discussion here on this Forum if you should you wish to.
I am reliably informed the election results will be available on the AOPA website on the 13th.
While you'e there, whether you like what you see or not, if you aren't already a member, become so, then you have the means to make it so.
