AOPA "The Election" (merged)
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Snarek:
Well summarised.
Ameus:
You have every right to be melancholic but like Snarek, I have every confidence that the new team will have the numbers and will sort out the mess. The consequences of this not happening are too awful to think about.
And I don't believe that Snarek was condoning dodgy behaviour. Again, the new board is more than likely to make sure that this can't happen again.
Give the A team a chance old boy, it will take time to regain the confidence of the members and those thousands of members departed. Don't forget that the slide took 7 years, it may take several years to fix.
People:
Maybe we should have some fun and place bets on the election result.
Russell
Well summarised.
Ameus:
You have every right to be melancholic but like Snarek, I have every confidence that the new team will have the numbers and will sort out the mess. The consequences of this not happening are too awful to think about.
And I don't believe that Snarek was condoning dodgy behaviour. Again, the new board is more than likely to make sure that this can't happen again.
Give the A team a chance old boy, it will take time to regain the confidence of the members and those thousands of members departed. Don't forget that the slide took 7 years, it may take several years to fix.
People:
Maybe we should have some fun and place bets on the election result.
Russell
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What is Going On Here?
There are two groups going for positions on the board. One groups (Group A) wants power to do things their way, to the exclusion of the other group. The other (Group B) is fighting back, believing that Group A ideas are wrong. There has been no leadership, so that these problems are not resolved within the board. The “Code of Conduct” for the board is the common response to this situation, an attempt to replace leadership with rules. A good first step, but it is only that.
The forum starts off pretty well with group A giving a basic outline of their policies. Then, as people did not stop to work out what others were saying (this goes for both sides), the problems of the division appeared.
Since then, group B have baited the other. Group A has reacted by attacking the members of group B personally. The result is “Animal Farm”.
After these elections, AOPA has the opportunity it may have only faced once before. AOPA could become the political force it has always desired to be. To do this, AOPA needs to represent more than it’s current member base.
The entire industry is starting to feel the combined pressure of CASA regulations & administration and of general commercial factors. This is throughout the entire industry, from Joe Bloggs aircraft rental of his own Cessna 152 through to QANTAS. (Where will QANTAS get pilots without general aviation). This is bigger than the private pilot, the commercial pilot, AOPA, the AUF or general aviation. I am serious here boys and girls, WE MUST ACT, ALL, TOGETHER, DIRECTED.
Both Groups agree that CASA does not apply consistent rulings. THIS IS A PROBLEM IN THE STRUCTURE OF CASA, not just the rules written. Why should we be fighting or negotiating each individual rule when their methodology of their drafting is wrong.
The entire aviation industry is small fry. As far as the government is concerned, aviation isn’t even a ripple on the economic pond. Why the hell should it care about one part of that industry? If the government doesn’t care, why should the regulator?
A few good men will not be enough to solve the problems we have with the regulator. AOPA itself needs a “louder” voice. It must be seen as representing the concerns many people. Even then, AOPA itself will not be enough. AOPA, in some way, needs to work with ALL sections of the industry.
AOPA will never be the front running in this program while it can’t get its own house in order. All the people running for positions claim to be trying to do this. If they are planning to use the same tactics shown here, AOPA is already dead.
I fear for aviation. This is our most critical hour. AOPA is not our only hope, but it is our best hope.
Children, grow up.
Good Bye
Monkey
P.S. brianh, I have never worked out how to give up. I have worked out how to change tact.
The forum starts off pretty well with group A giving a basic outline of their policies. Then, as people did not stop to work out what others were saying (this goes for both sides), the problems of the division appeared.
Since then, group B have baited the other. Group A has reacted by attacking the members of group B personally. The result is “Animal Farm”.
After these elections, AOPA has the opportunity it may have only faced once before. AOPA could become the political force it has always desired to be. To do this, AOPA needs to represent more than it’s current member base.
The entire industry is starting to feel the combined pressure of CASA regulations & administration and of general commercial factors. This is throughout the entire industry, from Joe Bloggs aircraft rental of his own Cessna 152 through to QANTAS. (Where will QANTAS get pilots without general aviation). This is bigger than the private pilot, the commercial pilot, AOPA, the AUF or general aviation. I am serious here boys and girls, WE MUST ACT, ALL, TOGETHER, DIRECTED.
Both Groups agree that CASA does not apply consistent rulings. THIS IS A PROBLEM IN THE STRUCTURE OF CASA, not just the rules written. Why should we be fighting or negotiating each individual rule when their methodology of their drafting is wrong.
The entire aviation industry is small fry. As far as the government is concerned, aviation isn’t even a ripple on the economic pond. Why the hell should it care about one part of that industry? If the government doesn’t care, why should the regulator?
A few good men will not be enough to solve the problems we have with the regulator. AOPA itself needs a “louder” voice. It must be seen as representing the concerns many people. Even then, AOPA itself will not be enough. AOPA, in some way, needs to work with ALL sections of the industry.
AOPA will never be the front running in this program while it can’t get its own house in order. All the people running for positions claim to be trying to do this. If they are planning to use the same tactics shown here, AOPA is already dead.
I fear for aviation. This is our most critical hour. AOPA is not our only hope, but it is our best hope.
Children, grow up.
Good Bye
Monkey
P.S. brianh, I have never worked out how to give up. I have worked out how to change tact.
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Antechinus
There has been an oversight in the Rules, the treatment of Proxies for the AGM. The RO should be managing these instead of being returned to the AOPA office. Following the alleged abuse of the election process by incumbent commitee men I have no confidence that Proxies will find their way to the AGM.
How could the proxies be tampered with if no directors (past or present) ever visit the office?
Dog
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Dogimed
There is no reason whatsoever to question the integrity of the office staff.
However I am surprised that there is no supervision from the board.
Does anyone know which director is supposed to be in charge of the office?
Chris McKeown, how about you enlighten us.
Russell
There is no reason whatsoever to question the integrity of the office staff.
However I am surprised that there is no supervision from the board.
Does anyone know which director is supposed to be in charge of the office?
Chris McKeown, how about you enlighten us.
Russell
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monkeyfly
Well and succinctly put and for the most part I would agree with you.
However;
I do not think that you would disagree that AOPA is fighting for its very survival.
The evidence of its relative irrelevance in its present form, is incontrovertible, not just here, but out there in the real world.
Desperate times deserve desperate measures.
Group A did not make or subvert the new set of rules after the nominations closed.
Group A understands clearly that this Forum does not nor is not necessarily representative of the membership.
We have a strong suspicion that the rump of the membership are not getting or have the full story, certainly not in the "official" AOPA organ.
The AOPA Forum is closed and I suspect will remain so until after the election is closed and I don't want to be cynical about this, but that is when the software "updates" will appear.
The Forum worked perfectly well without the "updates" before.
Maybe President McKeown can explain why, at the MOST crucial election in some years, that this is so. He was the one claiming he has fixed the Directors Liability issue so what other barrier is there.
Perhaps nobody is game to take on the moderating task or is it that those that might will turn it into a farago. whatever.
The end result is that the membership have been effectively hoodwinked in the mag, then blindfolded by leaving the Forum closed and then asked to go pin the tail on the donkey.
Puhhleeese.
President McKeown where are you?
Then there is the blatant electioneering by the President and VP as AOPA representatives at “official” functions that have not been advised to the Board nor which has any policy input into the “presentations”.
As has been confirmed here, the Board, are rarely if ever consulted on matters represented as AOPA policy on their behalf.
I'm with snarek, I have MUCH more respect for the membership than that.
So how do we get our story out there?
Group A has two options BOHICA, which is unacceptable if the membership is to be served, or take up the gauntlet and give em a fight they’ll never forget.
Exactly, then you might ask why, they, are resorting to using single usernames with multiple personalities here and the general carrying on if they themsleves are similarly concerned.
Why aren't they, like Snarek (Andrew Kerans), gaunty (Gary Gaunt) and Marjorie Pagani ( Marjorie Pagani) standing up and being counted, instead of relying on the often incoherent ramblings of others here.
I'm always ready to change tack anytime, but not until I have sufficient cover on the other boat, it's too important to risk otherwise.
We are NOT alone, believe me.
Well and succinctly put and for the most part I would agree with you.
However;
I do not think that you would disagree that AOPA is fighting for its very survival.
The evidence of its relative irrelevance in its present form, is incontrovertible, not just here, but out there in the real world.
Desperate times deserve desperate measures.
Group A did not make or subvert the new set of rules after the nominations closed.
Group A understands clearly that this Forum does not nor is not necessarily representative of the membership.
We have a strong suspicion that the rump of the membership are not getting or have the full story, certainly not in the "official" AOPA organ.
The AOPA Forum is closed and I suspect will remain so until after the election is closed and I don't want to be cynical about this, but that is when the software "updates" will appear.
The Forum worked perfectly well without the "updates" before.
Maybe President McKeown can explain why, at the MOST crucial election in some years, that this is so. He was the one claiming he has fixed the Directors Liability issue so what other barrier is there.
Perhaps nobody is game to take on the moderating task or is it that those that might will turn it into a farago. whatever.
The end result is that the membership have been effectively hoodwinked in the mag, then blindfolded by leaving the Forum closed and then asked to go pin the tail on the donkey.
Puhhleeese.
President McKeown where are you?
Then there is the blatant electioneering by the President and VP as AOPA representatives at “official” functions that have not been advised to the Board nor which has any policy input into the “presentations”.
As has been confirmed here, the Board, are rarely if ever consulted on matters represented as AOPA policy on their behalf.
I'm with snarek, I have MUCH more respect for the membership than that.
So how do we get our story out there?
Group A has two options BOHICA, which is unacceptable if the membership is to be served, or take up the gauntlet and give em a fight they’ll never forget.
AOPA will never be the front running in this program while it can’t get its own house in order. All the people running for positions claim to be trying to do this. If they are planning to use the same tactics shown here, AOPA is already dead.
Why aren't they, like Snarek (Andrew Kerans), gaunty (Gary Gaunt) and Marjorie Pagani ( Marjorie Pagani) standing up and being counted, instead of relying on the often incoherent ramblings of others here.
I'm always ready to change tack anytime, but not until I have sufficient cover on the other boat, it's too important to risk otherwise.
We are NOT alone, believe me.
AOPA is Dead long live the AUFOPA
As a member of the AUF, I would think the time is right to stage a major coup and take the disinfancised members of AOPA away and into a Real Fyling Organisation.
I'm going to petition the membership (of AUF) to come up with a strategy to pitch for the membership of the now dead AOPA. And if rename the organisation AUFOPA (catchy huh).
This strategy should deal with all of the problems currently in AOPA, by removing the power that AOPA think they have. MEMBERSHIP.
The days are numbered for organisations that can't get their sh!t together enough to hold a simple election.
Watch this space.
I'm going to petition the membership (of AUF) to come up with a strategy to pitch for the membership of the now dead AOPA. And if rename the organisation AUFOPA (catchy huh).
This strategy should deal with all of the problems currently in AOPA, by removing the power that AOPA think they have. MEMBERSHIP.
The days are numbered for organisations that can't get their sh!t together enough to hold a simple election.
Watch this space.
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PROXIES
Russell
One jump ahead of you on that thought. I faxed mine to the AOPA Office then sent the original with the fax slip to Murph - if anyone tries to say mine was not received 'twill be interesting.
Monkey
You may have cjhanged tack but certainly lost none of the positives you are inputting. Very good post.
Lead Balloon
Also very true. In the corporate world, AOPA would be an organisation ripe for takeover as it stands. But be warned, I'm sick of you AUF guys passing my C172 20 kts quicker at half the fuel burn. I have a mini maxim gun on order from the Mid East!
Cheers
One jump ahead of you on that thought. I faxed mine to the AOPA Office then sent the original with the fax slip to Murph - if anyone tries to say mine was not received 'twill be interesting.
Monkey
You may have cjhanged tack but certainly lost none of the positives you are inputting. Very good post.
Lead Balloon
Also very true. In the corporate world, AOPA would be an organisation ripe for takeover as it stands. But be warned, I'm sick of you AUF guys passing my C172 20 kts quicker at half the fuel burn. I have a mini maxim gun on order from the Mid East!
Cheers
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Antechinas;
What part if my post was unintelligible? Was it when I ran a few big words together that confused you?
I'll rephrase: This election would have to rank as one of the most spiteful and bitter episodes in any battle of the ego's. yours included.
It is not only me that has seen the typical left wing political strategy that has been demonstrated by "team A".
"Team B", of note has not resorted to such tactics and axiom, (love him or hate him), started championing one person and was subsequently dragged into a dare to support one or the other, not both.
Axiom will not be with you after the 9th May 2003, so you only have a little time to continue your venemous attacks.
Go for it, it strengthens my resolve and confirms the suspicions of those who would have voted for "team A" were it not for the tactical blunders you made and probably now are "team B" voters.
Time will tell won't it?
For those who know who axiom is I must say, your attempts to "out" me were nearly checked by one postee who came so close.
To those who do know, but managed to keep from blabbing, I congratulate you in the spirit of "fair electoral comment".
You will note, I did likewise for you.
Some Urban myths should be put right and I would ask the moderator to confirm if you should ask.
Axiom is one person with one URL and lives East of Ayres Rock. He is the anonomous political arm of one person who tried to stay apolitical but was forced into "team B" by the political strategy of "team A".
He holds no grudges and his posts will no longer be a burden to the insensitive, indeed he is preparing a separate pprune invitation to some of the misguided for drinks.
You are cordially invited, but be careful, after 50 or 60 drinks he is boisterous and unmanageable and tends to sing poorly.
Now that I have you off guard, remember axiom doesn't turn to dust until the 9th. And then you will never know. will you ?
What part if my post was unintelligible? Was it when I ran a few big words together that confused you?
I'll rephrase: This election would have to rank as one of the most spiteful and bitter episodes in any battle of the ego's. yours included.
It is not only me that has seen the typical left wing political strategy that has been demonstrated by "team A".
"Team B", of note has not resorted to such tactics and axiom, (love him or hate him), started championing one person and was subsequently dragged into a dare to support one or the other, not both.
Axiom will not be with you after the 9th May 2003, so you only have a little time to continue your venemous attacks.
Go for it, it strengthens my resolve and confirms the suspicions of those who would have voted for "team A" were it not for the tactical blunders you made and probably now are "team B" voters.
Time will tell won't it?
For those who know who axiom is I must say, your attempts to "out" me were nearly checked by one postee who came so close.
To those who do know, but managed to keep from blabbing, I congratulate you in the spirit of "fair electoral comment".
You will note, I did likewise for you.
Some Urban myths should be put right and I would ask the moderator to confirm if you should ask.
Axiom is one person with one URL and lives East of Ayres Rock. He is the anonomous political arm of one person who tried to stay apolitical but was forced into "team B" by the political strategy of "team A".
He holds no grudges and his posts will no longer be a burden to the insensitive, indeed he is preparing a separate pprune invitation to some of the misguided for drinks.
You are cordially invited, but be careful, after 50 or 60 drinks he is boisterous and unmanageable and tends to sing poorly.
Now that I have you off guard, remember axiom doesn't turn to dust until the 9th. And then you will never know. will you ?
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Andrew;
Drinks are on.
In the spirit of reconcilliation, I ask those who have been offended by axioms remarks to join us, I know they would have been as hurt, as I was to theirs.
Electoral comment, nothing more.
Win, loose or join forces, the campaign is now nearly over and the healing process begins.
The Toast:
To AOPA.
Drinks are on.
In the spirit of reconcilliation, I ask those who have been offended by axioms remarks to join us, I know they would have been as hurt, as I was to theirs.
Electoral comment, nothing more.
Win, loose or join forces, the campaign is now nearly over and the healing process begins.
The Toast:
To AOPA.
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Gaunty:
As an ex Moderator of the AOPA Forum, I can tell you that the Forum can be started up at a flick of a switch - 10 seconds at the most. It has nothing to do with new software.
But what is the point if Chris McKeown wants to act as censor?
Chris wants to be the Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf of AOPA but I'll bet he dosn't get re-elected.
Yes, this election is a watershed for AOPA and I am confident that the members are not as dumb as the B team would hope.
Axiom:
I think a few of us have guessed who you are. On the 9th May take the rest of the B team with you to the outer reaches of the Universe while we get on with things on planet Earth.
Russell
As an ex Moderator of the AOPA Forum, I can tell you that the Forum can be started up at a flick of a switch - 10 seconds at the most. It has nothing to do with new software.
But what is the point if Chris McKeown wants to act as censor?
Chris wants to be the Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf of AOPA but I'll bet he dosn't get re-elected.
Yes, this election is a watershed for AOPA and I am confident that the members are not as dumb as the B team would hope.
Axiom:
I think a few of us have guessed who you are. On the 9th May take the rest of the B team with you to the outer reaches of the Universe while we get on with things on planet Earth.
Russell
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axiom
I hope I get to go on your list and I promise I'll come as the real gaunty, not his evil twin.
Sorry and sadly for us all, not quite yet 
, the "B" Team has I am told, had one last desperate go at abusing the trust of the membership with their abuse of power routine, with which we'll have to deal.
They just don't get it.
Healing process you've got my money, but spin recovery has not yet been completed. We'd almost stopped the rotation, when the other lot booted in too much opposite rudder and we are about to flick into the opposite direction, we may still have just enough height to complete the recovery yet.
Watch this space.
Lead Balloon
Never was a truer word spoken AND a simple single reason why there needs to be "regime" change don't you think.
Until the nominations closed everything was swimmingly going.
And then they found out that their was a real election, the rest of Team "B"s chicanery and fomenting of the unrest has been plain for all to see.
You would do well to have a good long think about that mischievous little strategy of yours, take a Bex, have a cup of tea, then a good lay down and contemplate the taste of feathers for both parties.
antechinus
Thats what I thought, about the same amount of time as it took to turn it off.
I think so too, as long as they get the unvarnished facts or at the very least the other side of the coin.
The membership have been treated with this sort of contempt for far too long.
I hope I get to go on your list and I promise I'll come as the real gaunty, not his evil twin.
Win, loose (sic.) or join forces, the campaign is now nearly over and the healing process begins.
, the "B" Team has I am told, had one last desperate go at abusing the trust of the membership with their abuse of power routine, with which we'll have to deal. They just don't get it.
Healing process you've got my money, but spin recovery has not yet been completed. We'd almost stopped the rotation, when the other lot booted in too much opposite rudder and we are about to flick into the opposite direction, we may still have just enough height to complete the recovery yet.
Watch this space.
Lead Balloon
The days are numbered for organisations that can't get their sh!t together enough to hold a simple election.
Until the nominations closed everything was swimmingly going.
And then they found out that their was a real election, the rest of Team "B"s chicanery and fomenting of the unrest has been plain for all to see.
You would do well to have a good long think about that mischievous little strategy of yours, take a Bex, have a cup of tea, then a good lay down and contemplate the taste of feathers for both parties.
antechinus
Thats what I thought, about the same amount of time as it took to turn it off.
But what is the point if Chris McKeown wants to act as censor?
...............
Yes, this election is a watershed for AOPA and I am confident that the members are not as dumb as the B team would hope.
...............
Yes, this election is a watershed for AOPA and I am confident that the members are not as dumb as the B team would hope.
The membership have been treated with this sort of contempt for far too long.
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Antechinas;
I am humbled by your nobleness and will ponder your olive branch as "team B" strive toward a future AOPA without surly sniping from the sidelines.
You have just confirmed once again the vindictiveness of your campaign which will go down in political history for it's simple pig headed stupidity biterness and duplicity.
Anyone else want to confirm to "the yet to vote", why they shouldn't go team A ?
I will be the first to shake the hands of the winners if my mob don't get up, but don't expect too much from me.
What sort of an election campaign would it be if there was no opposition ?
Think about it while you kick the cat tonight.
I am humbled by your nobleness and will ponder your olive branch as "team B" strive toward a future AOPA without surly sniping from the sidelines.
You have just confirmed once again the vindictiveness of your campaign which will go down in political history for it's simple pig headed stupidity biterness and duplicity.
Anyone else want to confirm to "the yet to vote", why they shouldn't go team A ?
I will be the first to shake the hands of the winners if my mob don't get up, but don't expect too much from me.
What sort of an election campaign would it be if there was no opposition ?
Think about it while you kick the cat tonight.
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Part 1
FYI.
Below is a copy of an Important notice from Marjorie Pagani on our website
www.users.bigpond.net.au/gaunty
OMISSION FROM ELECTION “INFORMATION TO MEMBERS” NOTICE IN APRIL MAGAZINE:
In accordance with my duties as public officer of the company, I caused an Information to Members notice to be published in the April AOPA magazine. The notice contained, amongst other things, advice on how to vote both for directors, and for resolutions to be put at the AGM. After the magazine had been sent for printing, it came to my notice that Chris McKeown had directed the editor to delete a portion of my notice. The deleted portion appears below in bold italics. Please be assured that you have a right to attend at the AGM whether or not you have directed your proxy to another member: In short, the notice to you was to alert you to the fact that you did not lose that right by the giving of a proxy:
(Original Notice)
How to Vote
For the purposes of voting for the board, ballot papers and envelopes will be distributed with the Magazine. Voting will close at 5.00 pm (AEST) Friday 9th May 2003. The results will be posted at www.aopa.com.au. The appointment of directors elected will be ratified at the AGM, Saturday 24th May 2003.
To vote on the resolutions to be put to the Meeting, follow these steps.
Either
1. Complete and return the proxy form (printed in the Magazine, and available from the AOPA office) so that it is received by AOPA by 11 am Thursday 23rd May 2002.
Or
2. Attend the Meeting. The sending of a proxy form will not prevent you from attending the meeting.
Marjorie Pagani,
Director.
Why would you not want the members to be informed of this.??
Bueller,
....anyone.
Part 2.
Copy of an email from Marjorie Pagani: reproduced here at her request.
Attached (see above) my attempts to advise the members of their rights to attend the AGM (having given proxies) and of McKeown's unilateral decision (notwithstanding he has not been given board authority to censor the magazine) to thwart this advice, both in the April and now the May mag.
The (May) mag goes to print tonight, and will be set up tomorrow I understand.
Chris did not advise me (again) of this decision, but told the editor that he had told the whole board.
I do not know yet if he told anyone else, but certainly not me.
This was after I had specifically sent an e-mail to all the board, reminding the board that no authority had been given to McKeown to censor the magazine.
I learned of this because I telephoned the editor to ask where my page proofs were, and he advised that he had been told to delete the article by McKeown, and that McKeown said he had advised everybody about this.
This is completely untrue.
Marjorie Pagani.
Apart from the liberty taken with the rights of the membership, it is not at all fair to place the editor of the magazine in this position.
He has our sincere sympathy and understanding.
FYI.
Below is a copy of an Important notice from Marjorie Pagani on our website
www.users.bigpond.net.au/gaunty
OMISSION FROM ELECTION “INFORMATION TO MEMBERS” NOTICE IN APRIL MAGAZINE:
In accordance with my duties as public officer of the company, I caused an Information to Members notice to be published in the April AOPA magazine. The notice contained, amongst other things, advice on how to vote both for directors, and for resolutions to be put at the AGM. After the magazine had been sent for printing, it came to my notice that Chris McKeown had directed the editor to delete a portion of my notice. The deleted portion appears below in bold italics. Please be assured that you have a right to attend at the AGM whether or not you have directed your proxy to another member: In short, the notice to you was to alert you to the fact that you did not lose that right by the giving of a proxy:
(Original Notice)
How to Vote
For the purposes of voting for the board, ballot papers and envelopes will be distributed with the Magazine. Voting will close at 5.00 pm (AEST) Friday 9th May 2003. The results will be posted at www.aopa.com.au. The appointment of directors elected will be ratified at the AGM, Saturday 24th May 2003.
To vote on the resolutions to be put to the Meeting, follow these steps.
Either
1. Complete and return the proxy form (printed in the Magazine, and available from the AOPA office) so that it is received by AOPA by 11 am Thursday 23rd May 2002.
Or
2. Attend the Meeting. The sending of a proxy form will not prevent you from attending the meeting.
Marjorie Pagani,
Director.
Why would you not want the members to be informed of this.??
Bueller,
....anyone.
Part 2.
Copy of an email from Marjorie Pagani: reproduced here at her request.
Attached (see above) my attempts to advise the members of their rights to attend the AGM (having given proxies) and of McKeown's unilateral decision (notwithstanding he has not been given board authority to censor the magazine) to thwart this advice, both in the April and now the May mag.
The (May) mag goes to print tonight, and will be set up tomorrow I understand.
Chris did not advise me (again) of this decision, but told the editor that he had told the whole board.
I do not know yet if he told anyone else, but certainly not me.
This was after I had specifically sent an e-mail to all the board, reminding the board that no authority had been given to McKeown to censor the magazine.
I learned of this because I telephoned the editor to ask where my page proofs were, and he advised that he had been told to delete the article by McKeown, and that McKeown said he had advised everybody about this.
This is completely untrue.
Marjorie Pagani.
Apart from the liberty taken with the rights of the membership, it is not at all fair to place the editor of the magazine in this position.
He has our sincere sympathy and understanding.
Last edited by gaunty; 29th Apr 2003 at 18:04.
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Alice in Wonderland
These revelations are amazing.
The B Team has run amok. I find it difficult to understand how Mr Keown could stoop so low to maintain power for himself and the other Hamilton supporters.
This is a deceptive and blatant action that will have dire consequences for Mr McKeown and also AOPA if he gets away with it.
It not only impinges on the rights of members but involves the sickest of manipulative censorship.
Come on Axiom, what is the defence for this? The B Team seems to think it can win by cheating and unethical behaviour versus reason and logical argument for their cause.
I nearly drowned in my Bonox when I read Gaunty's post.
The B Team has run amok. I find it difficult to understand how Mr Keown could stoop so low to maintain power for himself and the other Hamilton supporters.
This is a deceptive and blatant action that will have dire consequences for Mr McKeown and also AOPA if he gets away with it.
It not only impinges on the rights of members but involves the sickest of manipulative censorship.
Come on Axiom, what is the defence for this? The B Team seems to think it can win by cheating and unethical behaviour versus reason and logical argument for their cause.
I nearly drowned in my Bonox when I read Gaunty's post.
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I am a member of AOPA for 35 years. I have paid my 5 year membership last December, so perhaps I am part of the problem with accounting. I do not agree with any censorship whatsoever from either the ‘A’, ‘B’ team or any individual. If I want to know what the board discussed or decided I should be able to. Would candidates for the board please indicate here, as to where they stand on this issue? Last election was sort of electioneering in reverse. First the president got elected and then told us in the magazine what he could NOT DO. Please let us know what you stand for and CAN DO. I will not vote for you just because you are a nice guy, nor because you have a PPL v. a CPL, nor because you have 1000 hours instead of more or less. I want to know what you stand for. A bit like our federal or state elections. How about it? Any volunteers?
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CHINESE WATER TORTURE
Go for it "I Fly".
Hey, candidates, another member jumping out to remind you what this is all about - I still haven't seen any candidate suggest a member survey via the AOPA Mag simple as that may seem to us at the member end.
Enuf of this chinese water torture from members and the pilot might get the idea of where the passengers want this Titanic of the skies to go - at the moment the iceberg still seems to be dead ahead. And to think that the system is so flawed that one Director can censor the Mag does little for the credibility of the current Board.
If there is any other unknown member out there surfing this Forum please express your view also - a touch of reality in this game show would be welcomed.
Cheers
And I just saw the "Compressor Stall" posting on Akkers new thread which adds even more emphasis from a full time aviator's perspective. If you haven't checked it, do so.
Hey, candidates, another member jumping out to remind you what this is all about - I still haven't seen any candidate suggest a member survey via the AOPA Mag simple as that may seem to us at the member end.
Enuf of this chinese water torture from members and the pilot might get the idea of where the passengers want this Titanic of the skies to go - at the moment the iceberg still seems to be dead ahead. And to think that the system is so flawed that one Director can censor the Mag does little for the credibility of the current Board.
If there is any other unknown member out there surfing this Forum please express your view also - a touch of reality in this game show would be welcomed.
Cheers
And I just saw the "Compressor Stall" posting on Akkers new thread which adds even more emphasis from a full time aviator's perspective. If you haven't checked it, do so.
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Brian,
Well said! I like your sense of humour, but true!!!
Here is a short cut to Topic: AOPA, what do YOU want???
Andrew
Well said! I like your sense of humour, but true!!!
Here is a short cut to Topic: AOPA, what do YOU want???
Andrew
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Emeus;
I should put on record here that I am not supportive of censorship in any electoral sense and like Brian will be asking questions.
As I have only heard one side of the story, I can only wait until I get a reply and then forward same back to you which hopefully will be today.
In the meantime lets not work ourselves up into a lynch mob. It's not very becoming.
I fly:
In the magazine all candidates put forth their 250 word profiles which should have included their platforms ideals etc. Most took it upon themselves to spend the 250 words telling everyone who to vote for.
Their were a couple though.
If you want more, I would suggest you email:
[email protected]
Or the rest of the candidates can be found via AOPA member services at HQ. Snarek is running as is Marjorie with a few calling themselves the A team, I am sure you will get something here from them.
I think a lot, (probably 50%), would be too "gun shy" to put a post here right now as it simply leads to abuse and ridicule.
If you want a balanced idea it is best to hear both sides of the story.
I should put on record here that I am not supportive of censorship in any electoral sense and like Brian will be asking questions.
As I have only heard one side of the story, I can only wait until I get a reply and then forward same back to you which hopefully will be today.
In the meantime lets not work ourselves up into a lynch mob. It's not very becoming.
I fly:
In the magazine all candidates put forth their 250 word profiles which should have included their platforms ideals etc. Most took it upon themselves to spend the 250 words telling everyone who to vote for.
Their were a couple though.
If you want more, I would suggest you email:
[email protected]
Or the rest of the candidates can be found via AOPA member services at HQ. Snarek is running as is Marjorie with a few calling themselves the A team, I am sure you will get something here from them.
I think a lot, (probably 50%), would be too "gun shy" to put a post here right now as it simply leads to abuse and ridicule.
If you want a balanced idea it is best to hear both sides of the story.
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I fly
A lot of what I stand for is already on this thread, somewhere.
But I stand for change. Most importantly an AOPA that asks its members before making up its mind and then supports their point of view.
I detest censorship, but there is a fine line between censorship and slander. Some posts on the old AOPA forum eminating from WA, crossed that line regularly.
Axiom, the only one to have abused me recently on PPRuNe is you. Ther reason the others (Hamilton, McKeown etc) don't come on here is, in my view, that they have done wrong by AOPA and don't want to be told that. Oh, and it was you that called us the 'A team', but thats OK, A = accountable, B = ..............
Why Murphie doesn't come on, heh heh, I'll leave that for you to ponder while I remain true to a promise I made.
Andrew Kerans
A lot of what I stand for is already on this thread, somewhere.
But I stand for change. Most importantly an AOPA that asks its members before making up its mind and then supports their point of view.
I detest censorship, but there is a fine line between censorship and slander. Some posts on the old AOPA forum eminating from WA, crossed that line regularly.
Axiom, the only one to have abused me recently on PPRuNe is you. Ther reason the others (Hamilton, McKeown etc) don't come on here is, in my view, that they have done wrong by AOPA and don't want to be told that. Oh, and it was you that called us the 'A team', but thats OK, A = accountable, B = ..............
Why Murphie doesn't come on, heh heh, I'll leave that for you to ponder while I remain true to a promise I made.
Andrew Kerans