210's tips and tricks
210's tips and tricks
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This has been done over pretty thoroughly, a search on D & G Forum should produce the result, without having to reinvent the wheel.
Has anyone got the link handy???
Has anyone got the link handy???
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Woomera, if I may...?
DOH!!:
Please read in the GA section about the Lake Evella crash, and Groote crash (I think thats where it happened).
There have been several others.
This machine is a serious piece of equipment. Do not underestimate its capacity to kill you in an instant. Some very experienced 210 drivers will back me on this one.
Good luck.
DOH!!:
Please read in the GA section about the Lake Evella crash, and Groote crash (I think thats where it happened).
There have been several others.
This machine is a serious piece of equipment. Do not underestimate its capacity to kill you in an instant. Some very experienced 210 drivers will back me on this one.
Good luck.
It might have been one of the last threads on the old forum W. Does the search function work on that one still, or did the new server/software get updated with the changeover? Tried a search using "206" (I think the old heading was "206 tips and techniques", and got nothing back.
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Flight Manual
ALL tips and tricks can be found in this marvellous information guide. Its called the flight manual and is produced by that mob that desinged and built the thingy.
Without being a smart ar*e I do hear where you are coming from...
Tips like the can of LPS2 for the micros in the wet...
Should the fuel drain from one side to the other if parked on a sloping ground?
How do you start that bugga hot?
All operating material is in that book thingy but practicalities are something that you learn from experience and listening...
Without being a smart ar*e I do hear where you are coming from...
Tips like the can of LPS2 for the micros in the wet...
Should the fuel drain from one side to the other if parked on a sloping ground?
How do you start that bugga hot?
All operating material is in that book thingy but practicalities are something that you learn from experience and listening...
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Many many moons ago in a planet far away as a former chief pilot of a company sporting some several C210's/C206's/C207's I may have a few tips and hints of wisdom.
Firstly refuelling.
Most C210's and possibly 206's have bladder type tanks.
On occasion a fold or small ridge may form in this bladder and when you go to test for water contamination the fold may prevent the water from reaching the lowest point where fuel is drained.
After refuelling shake the wing tip a few times as this may help dislodge any water in the tank that may be trapped by this fold.
Wait a few minutes and then test.
If water is found repeat process.
We used to carry a fuel log for the left and right tank and never had a problem with running a tank dry.
Subsequent pilots at this organisation have pranged a serviceable aircraft simply because they ran a tank dry and didnt recognise the problem.
And guess what people - they didn't use the log!
Made CASA's job easy.
Secondly we had a requirement to remove the cowls of the engine each morning for the pre-flight inspection once each day (normally a 2 man affair to avoid damage/scratching of windscreen etc).
Its amazing what birds decide to nest in and what you actually find.
Its a better method and makes inspecting more thorough.
Worn hoses are easily spotted as well as anything else untoward.
Thirdly engine starting in very hot conditions.
From memory (and quote me if incorrect) at high temperature the fuel in the lines may vapourise and make starting a problem.
We used to run the high pressure fuel pump for 30 secs or so to purge the vapours and introduce actual fuel to the lines.
Start as per normal.
Thats it and am only going by memory here (it is about 5 piston twins and several jets/turboprops ago so some info may be a bit dodgy in regard to fuel pumps etc).
Timmeeee!!!!
Firstly refuelling.
Most C210's and possibly 206's have bladder type tanks.
On occasion a fold or small ridge may form in this bladder and when you go to test for water contamination the fold may prevent the water from reaching the lowest point where fuel is drained.
After refuelling shake the wing tip a few times as this may help dislodge any water in the tank that may be trapped by this fold.
Wait a few minutes and then test.
If water is found repeat process.
We used to carry a fuel log for the left and right tank and never had a problem with running a tank dry.
Subsequent pilots at this organisation have pranged a serviceable aircraft simply because they ran a tank dry and didnt recognise the problem.
And guess what people - they didn't use the log!
Made CASA's job easy.
Secondly we had a requirement to remove the cowls of the engine each morning for the pre-flight inspection once each day (normally a 2 man affair to avoid damage/scratching of windscreen etc).
Its amazing what birds decide to nest in and what you actually find.
Its a better method and makes inspecting more thorough.
Worn hoses are easily spotted as well as anything else untoward.
Thirdly engine starting in very hot conditions.
From memory (and quote me if incorrect) at high temperature the fuel in the lines may vapourise and make starting a problem.
We used to run the high pressure fuel pump for 30 secs or so to purge the vapours and introduce actual fuel to the lines.
Start as per normal.
Thats it and am only going by memory here (it is about 5 piston twins and several jets/turboprops ago so some info may be a bit dodgy in regard to fuel pumps etc).
Timmeeee!!!!
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Dear D'OH !!!!
Before going on with my '2 cents worth', it is evident that a number of people in here have flown that marvellous machine, otherwise known as the SINGLE ENGINE MONGREL OF THE SKIES, namely the Cessna 210.
lt seems the helpful suggestions and hints herein are very valid. In fact, most of the posts relating to your enquiry are from fellow collegues of this industry of ours who are current on this type of machine, and so their comments are rather sound.
Mention was made regarding the C210's abillity to 'bite' if one is not careful. As mentioned by one or two previously, this is, unfortunately true for ANY aircraft. I have many friends who were flying/still flying that marvellous machine, all but a couple still alive, the latter being involved in accidents involving the C210. Not to deter you from your enthusiasm or passion to learn more about this aircraft, in my humble 1300 hrs flying the C210 around Central Australia and the Top End, I still find myself describing to my current work collegues just how much fun it was to fly the C210. It IS a well respected machine by all single/multi engine pilots alike and one I am most certan you will remember for your entire aviation career.
I wish you best of luck and many safe happy landings in one of the Australian Aviation's Finest Single Engine workhorses.
Cheers.
Before going on with my '2 cents worth', it is evident that a number of people in here have flown that marvellous machine, otherwise known as the SINGLE ENGINE MONGREL OF THE SKIES, namely the Cessna 210.
lt seems the helpful suggestions and hints herein are very valid. In fact, most of the posts relating to your enquiry are from fellow collegues of this industry of ours who are current on this type of machine, and so their comments are rather sound.
Mention was made regarding the C210's abillity to 'bite' if one is not careful. As mentioned by one or two previously, this is, unfortunately true for ANY aircraft. I have many friends who were flying/still flying that marvellous machine, all but a couple still alive, the latter being involved in accidents involving the C210. Not to deter you from your enthusiasm or passion to learn more about this aircraft, in my humble 1300 hrs flying the C210 around Central Australia and the Top End, I still find myself describing to my current work collegues just how much fun it was to fly the C210. It IS a well respected machine by all single/multi engine pilots alike and one I am most certan you will remember for your entire aviation career.
I wish you best of luck and many safe happy landings in one of the Australian Aviation's Finest Single Engine workhorses.
Cheers.
Check Attitude
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DOH The Cessna 210 is possibly one of the finest aircraft ever built.
Payload and performance are legendary, it has big shoulders and seven league boots.
The refinements toward the end of production made this one outstanding aircraft.
From the 210M onwards the ability to extend gear and / or flaps at very respectable airspeeds, the sheer pleasure of operating this machine will stay with you for life.
Yes, it is a serious machine. It suffers fools lightly, it is totally unforgiving when provoked in the wrong way, yet can please and perform as no other aircraft can when handled knowingly.
This is an 1100cc Road bike, NOT a 250cc trail bike.
The laminar flow wing, the secret of it's success, embodies all that you learnt in aerodynamics, slotted fowler flaps, frise ailerons, washout etc.
This wing will not perform very well if prematurely rotated, also the washout has the wing tips operating at slightly negative angles of attack at cruise, and if you are silly enough to venture into the yellow arc, in turbulence, the wings will fail, downwards and flap the sides of the fuselage, not upwards as one might expect.
The aircraft is capable of approaching Vne in level flight at sea level at full power, and even in a normal descent, will rapidly wind up to or past the yellow arc if not carefully managed.
However, it's most vicious characteristic is the "Power On " landing configuration stall.
Below 1,000 ft this stall is virtually unrecoverable without specialist training and this characteristic, ( the loss of 750' in recovery on the first attempt after being properly briefed is so sudden that shock delays recovery)
This is the characteristic, more than any other root cause, that has killed so many pilots doing beatups and pullup turns.
This aircraft will not tolerate being flown other than professionally and with extreme care.
If you rotate prior to the appropriate rotate speed, you will invariably run off the end of the runway in a nose up attitude, unable to accelerate or generate lift.
If you stall in the landing configuration with more than 17" MP and dont get corrective rudder in quick enough it will flick roll to the left and enter an inverted spiral dive that is not recoverable before hitting the ground, ( think about overshooting base to final at 500', tightening up the left turn and subconsciously or deliberately backsticking at the same time. It's going to roll left, yes you're already in a left turn, and lose 750' before you recover).
If you do a beatup at low level and pull up into a climbing turn to the left , below 1,000' and stall, you are DEAD.
This is a magnificent machine flown properly, DONT do anything dumb in it because , yes, it WILL kill you. If you feel the need for exuberance or showing off, get into a Citabria, Aerobat or Pitts Special, where you stand a better chance.
Don't fly into the yellow arc, don't get near a powered stall, don't show off in this professional aeroplane. Treat it like a B737, fly it accurately within it's performance envelope and you won't be the next one to make it into the Safety Digest, you will treasure for a lifetime the exquisite pleasure of an aircraft designed to please pilots and accountants
Payload and performance are legendary, it has big shoulders and seven league boots.
The refinements toward the end of production made this one outstanding aircraft.
From the 210M onwards the ability to extend gear and / or flaps at very respectable airspeeds, the sheer pleasure of operating this machine will stay with you for life.
Yes, it is a serious machine. It suffers fools lightly, it is totally unforgiving when provoked in the wrong way, yet can please and perform as no other aircraft can when handled knowingly.
This is an 1100cc Road bike, NOT a 250cc trail bike.
The laminar flow wing, the secret of it's success, embodies all that you learnt in aerodynamics, slotted fowler flaps, frise ailerons, washout etc.
This wing will not perform very well if prematurely rotated, also the washout has the wing tips operating at slightly negative angles of attack at cruise, and if you are silly enough to venture into the yellow arc, in turbulence, the wings will fail, downwards and flap the sides of the fuselage, not upwards as one might expect.
The aircraft is capable of approaching Vne in level flight at sea level at full power, and even in a normal descent, will rapidly wind up to or past the yellow arc if not carefully managed.
However, it's most vicious characteristic is the "Power On " landing configuration stall.
Below 1,000 ft this stall is virtually unrecoverable without specialist training and this characteristic, ( the loss of 750' in recovery on the first attempt after being properly briefed is so sudden that shock delays recovery)
This is the characteristic, more than any other root cause, that has killed so many pilots doing beatups and pullup turns.
This aircraft will not tolerate being flown other than professionally and with extreme care.
If you rotate prior to the appropriate rotate speed, you will invariably run off the end of the runway in a nose up attitude, unable to accelerate or generate lift.
If you stall in the landing configuration with more than 17" MP and dont get corrective rudder in quick enough it will flick roll to the left and enter an inverted spiral dive that is not recoverable before hitting the ground, ( think about overshooting base to final at 500', tightening up the left turn and subconsciously or deliberately backsticking at the same time. It's going to roll left, yes you're already in a left turn, and lose 750' before you recover).
If you do a beatup at low level and pull up into a climbing turn to the left , below 1,000' and stall, you are DEAD.
This is a magnificent machine flown properly, DONT do anything dumb in it because , yes, it WILL kill you. If you feel the need for exuberance or showing off, get into a Citabria, Aerobat or Pitts Special, where you stand a better chance.
Don't fly into the yellow arc, don't get near a powered stall, don't show off in this professional aeroplane. Treat it like a B737, fly it accurately within it's performance envelope and you won't be the next one to make it into the Safety Digest, you will treasure for a lifetime the exquisite pleasure of an aircraft designed to please pilots and accountants
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210s
Timmeee
Just a small point. The fuel tanks in a 210 are integral and therfore don't suffer the same problems as the older model 206. From memory I think the 206G models also have integral tanks.
As for the 210 it is a great aircraft and a real pleasure to fly.
Just a small point. The fuel tanks in a 210 are integral and therfore don't suffer the same problems as the older model 206. From memory I think the 206G models also have integral tanks.
As for the 210 it is a great aircraft and a real pleasure to fly.
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Thanks PILAME.....I stand corrected.
We flew some older model 210's also with the gear doors and used to pump open the doors on the ground to inspect on the first daily inspection.
The windscreens used to creak in turbulence due to airframe flexing but yeas, this was a very nice machine and a good tourer.
Flew the P210 also a few times.........great performance and very very quiet compared to the unpressurised version.
We flew some older model 210's also with the gear doors and used to pump open the doors on the ground to inspect on the first daily inspection.
The windscreens used to creak in turbulence due to airframe flexing but yeas, this was a very nice machine and a good tourer.
Flew the P210 also a few times.........great performance and very very quiet compared to the unpressurised version.
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timmeeee
I once flew a really old 210 with the gear doors and an engine driven hydraulic system. It had a 4 + 2 seating arrangement. The rear seats were not really useful except for kids. This 210 was the fastest one I have flown with a TAS approaching 170 knots. The only other one that comes close is a 210R model I flew. The 210R has longer wings, a longer stab and more fuel. Unfortunately Cessna stopped making them after only a few had come off the production line.
If I had a reason to own my own machine I would have to seriously consider the 210 for the pleasure and efficiency.
I once flew a really old 210 with the gear doors and an engine driven hydraulic system. It had a 4 + 2 seating arrangement. The rear seats were not really useful except for kids. This 210 was the fastest one I have flown with a TAS approaching 170 knots. The only other one that comes close is a 210R model I flew. The 210R has longer wings, a longer stab and more fuel. Unfortunately Cessna stopped making them after only a few had come off the production line.
If I had a reason to own my own machine I would have to seriously consider the 210 for the pleasure and efficiency.
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210 lovers, what do you see in this overpriced overrated noisey old buscuit tin?
If you don't need the 6 seats (and most don't most of the time) 182RG is damn near as fast, carries the load, a lot better mannered near the stall, a much less temperamental engine, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to land/park - maybe 5 - 10 knots slower. Why bother with a 210?
Of course, you do tend to catch the struts when you taxi through a gateway!
If you don't need the 6 seats (and most don't most of the time) 182RG is damn near as fast, carries the load, a lot better mannered near the stall, a much less temperamental engine, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to land/park - maybe 5 - 10 knots slower. Why bother with a 210?
Of course, you do tend to catch the struts when you taxi through a gateway!
Them dam*ed gateways!
The fact that the C210 will lift and carry more than most six seat twins for much less $$ at a quite respectable TAS for a single might be the deciding factor Wheeler. There must be something about them otherwise why are we not seeing too many other single engined a/c types doing the same job?
Into and out of some strips that most six seat twins would just plainly not look at, but that leans more toward the C206.
Plus the fact that 5 paying bums in the seats pays more into the bank at the end of the day than do 3! There's always that return on investment thingie, and at the rate they are disappearing nowadays they are only gonna get more pricey to buy and run.
Can't say I agree about the engine being easier to bust than any other piston engine if handled properly. "Fly it like you own it" has been drilled into me for quite a few years now...
Sadly, I'm yet to see one on floats..... something about that laminar flow wing....
The fact that the C210 will lift and carry more than most six seat twins for much less $$ at a quite respectable TAS for a single might be the deciding factor Wheeler. There must be something about them otherwise why are we not seeing too many other single engined a/c types doing the same job?
Into and out of some strips that most six seat twins would just plainly not look at, but that leans more toward the C206.
Plus the fact that 5 paying bums in the seats pays more into the bank at the end of the day than do 3! There's always that return on investment thingie, and at the rate they are disappearing nowadays they are only gonna get more pricey to buy and run.
Can't say I agree about the engine being easier to bust than any other piston engine if handled properly. "Fly it like you own it" has been drilled into me for quite a few years now...
Sadly, I'm yet to see one on floats..... something about that laminar flow wing....
If you don't need the 6 seats (and most don't most of the time)
Hey pylot, dis one don't count, it only a baby (patting 6 year old on head)Tip #3124 Make sure the baggage compartment is locked before take off. The latches can be very dodgy, and while it's amusing to see piles of crusty camp blankets being sucked out of the plane when it comes open after takeoff, its not amusing when the trim and insulation follows. And it scares the bejesus out of the pax too!
grrowler
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Captain Fathom,/DOH!! I'm sorry I should have explained myself more clearly.
I've found the 210 to be less forgiving than most other singles. Its ability to make you feel like King of the skies at the start of a career in aviation is perhaps what pushes people to push it that bit too far. In addition to this, it dislikes having the gear out anywhere but in a descent (as with most retracts - however you might be coming off a 206 or 182 and not make the connection straight away). Work to be done in a go around situation with a full load on a hot day.
Tips. If you do not have a nose high attitude in the flare, you are too fast. Your cp will show you this anyway.
Some require the use of quite a bit of brake to turn. Again fairly different to your 100 series.
Do not fall into the trap of retracting the gear low to the ground straight after takeoff. It goes down first, then back and might give you some handling problems when it contacts the bitumen at speed. It might feel good to do, but resist it.
There are lots of other tips. Listen out to the experienced professionals in your company they will guide you on the do's and don'ts.
Finally, let me tell you that this aeroplane was born to fly. I haven't found a machine quite like it. Its a little powerhouse and it will embarrass little toy twins. Its great to fly and great for your skills. Good luck and have fun!!
Wheeler: I just loved the noise - I wanted more!!!
I've found the 210 to be less forgiving than most other singles. Its ability to make you feel like King of the skies at the start of a career in aviation is perhaps what pushes people to push it that bit too far. In addition to this, it dislikes having the gear out anywhere but in a descent (as with most retracts - however you might be coming off a 206 or 182 and not make the connection straight away). Work to be done in a go around situation with a full load on a hot day.
Tips. If you do not have a nose high attitude in the flare, you are too fast. Your cp will show you this anyway.
Some require the use of quite a bit of brake to turn. Again fairly different to your 100 series.
Do not fall into the trap of retracting the gear low to the ground straight after takeoff. It goes down first, then back and might give you some handling problems when it contacts the bitumen at speed. It might feel good to do, but resist it.
There are lots of other tips. Listen out to the experienced professionals in your company they will guide you on the do's and don'ts.
Finally, let me tell you that this aeroplane was born to fly. I haven't found a machine quite like it. Its a little powerhouse and it will embarrass little toy twins. Its great to fly and great for your skills. Good luck and have fun!!
Wheeler: I just loved the noise - I wanted more!!!
Bottom Line: don't know of anything that will fly as fast, as far and carrying so much as cheaply as the 210. Fabulous aircraft!!!.
PS. If you know of something that will please list it here.
PS. If you know of something that will please list it here.
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If the C182RG was so good Wheeler why weren't there more made or their popularity greater?
If I had it my way the C206 wins the award for being a great all-rounder.
A few years in both the top end and also PNG has shown me that.
120-130 knots TAS, rugged reliability, cheap to maintain, the ability to takeoff and land almost anywhere combined with the fact that it can lift almost anything you can physically throw down the back (lead nails not withstanding) = a bloody great workhorse.
The C210 was great but for all round flexibility the C206 was a great old bird - and only getting better.
If I had it my way the C206 wins the award for being a great all-rounder.
A few years in both the top end and also PNG has shown me that.
120-130 knots TAS, rugged reliability, cheap to maintain, the ability to takeoff and land almost anywhere combined with the fact that it can lift almost anything you can physically throw down the back (lead nails not withstanding) = a bloody great workhorse.
The C210 was great but for all round flexibility the C206 was a great old bird - and only getting better.