Aussie fighter aircraft could see action for first time since Vietnam
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rich-fine-green, you sound like goerge bush, am I right?
seriously I personaly take a neutral approach to this issue. every one has lost focus on the real issue of getting that prick Osama bin laden. If it means going into Iraq to get the prick then I would support it 100%.
What you said about your mate Saddam I also agree with. If any one in this world is going to use nucular weapons, he is a big enough ******** to do it, and he must be stopped. But all you politicions please consider the consequences of going it alone. Do we want another Vietnam?
wether you are for or agianst the war, please remember that the soldiers saliors and airmen going there are poeple like you and me, and they don't make the decision to go in there. We must give them our full 100% support and NOT treat them like those wingeing, cowardly and disgusting hippie baby boomers did to those guys that went to Vietnam. lets give them our support they have mine.
good luck guys and come back back safe!
seriously I personaly take a neutral approach to this issue. every one has lost focus on the real issue of getting that prick Osama bin laden. If it means going into Iraq to get the prick then I would support it 100%.
What you said about your mate Saddam I also agree with. If any one in this world is going to use nucular weapons, he is a big enough ******** to do it, and he must be stopped. But all you politicions please consider the consequences of going it alone. Do we want another Vietnam?
wether you are for or agianst the war, please remember that the soldiers saliors and airmen going there are poeple like you and me, and they don't make the decision to go in there. We must give them our full 100% support and NOT treat them like those wingeing, cowardly and disgusting hippie baby boomers did to those guys that went to Vietnam. lets give them our support they have mine.
good luck guys and come back back safe!
I support all those who deploy to the Gulf but am not blinded by the expedience of American foreign policy.
Coming from a family who has been touched by the horrors of Vietnam, i support a Gulf War levy. About .5% should do it, for veterans and their families in rehabilitation. No fancy Government lawyers denying "Gulf War Syndrome".
All bravo on pprune in your support guys, do have a close look at Veterans' Affairs Issues next election. That would be a high level of real support. Pilots often bleet at social taxes.
In my cynical view of American Foreign Policy, this Gulf War will be analysed in years to come as a means for the following.
1) The defence of Israel-taking out the one regime that could unite the Arab world against the American support of that country.
2) Control of their oil- to limit the power of Saudia Arabia.
3) Keep Iran in check.
All is good I suppose, for our Western lifestyle, I do cringe at 1).
Coming from a family who has been touched by the horrors of Vietnam, i support a Gulf War levy. About .5% should do it, for veterans and their families in rehabilitation. No fancy Government lawyers denying "Gulf War Syndrome".
All bravo on pprune in your support guys, do have a close look at Veterans' Affairs Issues next election. That would be a high level of real support. Pilots often bleet at social taxes.
In my cynical view of American Foreign Policy, this Gulf War will be analysed in years to come as a means for the following.
1) The defence of Israel-taking out the one regime that could unite the Arab world against the American support of that country.
2) Control of their oil- to limit the power of Saudia Arabia.
3) Keep Iran in check.
All is good I suppose, for our Western lifestyle, I do cringe at 1).
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Coming from a family who has been touched by the horrors of Vietnam, i support a Gulf War levy. About .5% should do it, for veterans and their families in rehabilitation. No fancy Government lawyers denying "Gulf War Syndrome".
I'm still helping Vietnam veterans with PTSD and wrecked lives, and widows resulting from Vietnam and now there are young Australians veterans from the East Timor campaign receiving psychiatric treatment.
The best anti-war treatment I know is to visit any veterans' hospital psychiatric ward; for example visit Heidelberg Ward 17 in Melbourne. The patients probably won't be able to talk to non-veterans but the message is clear. Any gung ho person making that visit will be quickly converted to wanting to find a better way to resolve the Iraq problem.
There's absolutely no difference between the Iraqi pilots flying Mig's, Mirages, Sukhois etc than our blokes. They just want to fly, defend their country, and go home to their wives and children at the end of the day. Find a better way to resolve the conflict.
Bentwings
Let us talk about Israel. Find a better way to resolve conflict?
We do have common ground on the real support of our veterans being more than a ticker tape parade, but expensive and perpetual support throughout their lives.
Vietnam was a lie. Those who have had their lives devastated are often critical of American policy. Why are you so quick to follow now?
Iraqi pilots? There will be little air combat. The trauma will probably be amongst the civilian population-caught between Saddam's henchman(Republican Guard) and American firepower.
Let us talk about Israel. Find a better way to resolve conflict?
We do have common ground on the real support of our veterans being more than a ticker tape parade, but expensive and perpetual support throughout their lives.
Vietnam was a lie. Those who have had their lives devastated are often critical of American policy. Why are you so quick to follow now?
Iraqi pilots? There will be little air combat. The trauma will probably be amongst the civilian population-caught between Saddam's henchman(Republican Guard) and American firepower.
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My 2 bobs worth!
There are arguments for and against....all valid in their own way. But for Australia to participate shows support for America whereby non-participation would indicate otherwise. Whether we like it or not, America is our aly and I for one think it is imperative we show a united front and get some of these a*seholes off the planet BEFORE they create the type of havoc they are obviously quite capable of and willing to inflict on anyone they desire!
To our troops; good luck and God's speed.
Take Care.
To our troops; good luck and God's speed.
Take Care.
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Gnadenburg,
My post was unclear.
1. I was in Vietnam with the Australian army and have first-hand knowledge of what happens to the little people like us in the conflict and its aftermath.
2. I stated my belief of the political/strategic reasons for our government's decision to send troops to Iraq.
3. I am opposed to sending Australian forces to Iraq but when they do go I will support them while they're there and when they return unlike the treatment we received during and after SVN.
4. I have lived and worked in the Middle East and have friends in Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. None of those friends are religious fundamentalists or want to harm anyone but they don't run their countries any more than we do ours.
The strategies of all those countries are based on the common Middle Eastern philosophy: 'The friend of my friend is my friend, the enemy of my friend is my enemy, the enemy of my enemy is my friend' hence I don't ever expect peace in the Middle East.
Cheers,
BW
My post was unclear.
1. I was in Vietnam with the Australian army and have first-hand knowledge of what happens to the little people like us in the conflict and its aftermath.
2. I stated my belief of the political/strategic reasons for our government's decision to send troops to Iraq.
3. I am opposed to sending Australian forces to Iraq but when they do go I will support them while they're there and when they return unlike the treatment we received during and after SVN.
4. I have lived and worked in the Middle East and have friends in Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. None of those friends are religious fundamentalists or want to harm anyone but they don't run their countries any more than we do ours.
The strategies of all those countries are based on the common Middle Eastern philosophy: 'The friend of my friend is my friend, the enemy of my friend is my enemy, the enemy of my enemy is my friend' hence I don't ever expect peace in the Middle East.
Cheers,
BW
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ash767
Ah...a couple of questions please if you could help me Ash...
And breaking UN law HASN"T been done by all those countries who have waged war in the last 40 years in Europe, Africa, Middle East, Indochina, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Russia etc etc etc.
Just which of these wars was/is legal by your definition??
And, while we are at it, what was done by the UN against the transgressors that has been a REALLY affective deterent and has made them stop??
Just interested.
And for the record, I too wish our troops a safe tour and a speedy return to their loved ones.
We need to excise this cancer on our world and if diplomacy is scoffed at by Sad & his military advisers (as seems to be the case) and force is the only way - So be it.
I fully support our troops all the way, it would be un-Australian not to do so. The thing I do not support is the US attacking Iraq without a UN resolution authorising force. As I understand it if the US attack Iraq without the blessing of the UN they will be breaking international law.
And breaking UN law HASN"T been done by all those countries who have waged war in the last 40 years in Europe, Africa, Middle East, Indochina, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Russia etc etc etc.
Just which of these wars was/is legal by your definition??
And, while we are at it, what was done by the UN against the transgressors that has been a REALLY affective deterent and has made them stop??
Just interested.
And for the record, I too wish our troops a safe tour and a speedy return to their loved ones.
We need to excise this cancer on our world and if diplomacy is scoffed at by Sad & his military advisers (as seems to be the case) and force is the only way - So be it.
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First, Bentwings, check your VN stats. They are, albeit by a small margin, (5%), incorrect.
Secondly, this thread seems to be a platform form political views, so let's join in.
All, or most, normal people these days are not in favour of war.
If and when the unexpected happens, for example, Sept. 11, everyone wants to know why wasn't it prevented by the Government.
The do-gooders, the so called doves if you will, like to project an image of themselves as holding very high and holy ground. But their message is always mis-directed. It should be focussed on those who wish to impose a will on all they can control.
As much as we all love to hate the Americans, some anyway, the planet would not be a better place if their might did not exist.
Now, let's get back to aviation, and talk about scabs, for example.
Secondly, this thread seems to be a platform form political views, so let's join in.
All, or most, normal people these days are not in favour of war.
If and when the unexpected happens, for example, Sept. 11, everyone wants to know why wasn't it prevented by the Government.
The do-gooders, the so called doves if you will, like to project an image of themselves as holding very high and holy ground. But their message is always mis-directed. It should be focussed on those who wish to impose a will on all they can control.
As much as we all love to hate the Americans, some anyway, the planet would not be a better place if their might did not exist.
Now, let's get back to aviation, and talk about scabs, for example.
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At this very moment somewhere in the Middle East, Africa,or any
other holy Muslim place there is a mother with a young child on
her knee. This mother is telling her child about the evil threat to
them from the western world. Mrs Bin Laden once whispered the
same words into her son's ear.
The problem is not blowing up Iraq, Palestine of any other place.
The solution is to stop these mothers continuing the madness of
difference between people, religions, politics.
We are all human beings, just because we practice religion of
any sort does not give us divine rights to kill others, just because
we are of a different political ilk does not give us rights to destroy
someone else's political system.
Humankind will only truly progress when all religion is eliminated.
God does not have a name, religions are purely franchises made
by man to benefit themselves.
To the do gooders who want to stop war! I also suggest they
act as human shields to protect Saddam and his weapons.
A perfect solution to eliminate the mentally feeble...
other holy Muslim place there is a mother with a young child on
her knee. This mother is telling her child about the evil threat to
them from the western world. Mrs Bin Laden once whispered the
same words into her son's ear.
The problem is not blowing up Iraq, Palestine of any other place.
The solution is to stop these mothers continuing the madness of
difference between people, religions, politics.
We are all human beings, just because we practice religion of
any sort does not give us divine rights to kill others, just because
we are of a different political ilk does not give us rights to destroy
someone else's political system.
Humankind will only truly progress when all religion is eliminated.
God does not have a name, religions are purely franchises made
by man to benefit themselves.
To the do gooders who want to stop war! I also suggest they
act as human shields to protect Saddam and his weapons.
A perfect solution to eliminate the mentally feeble...
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Australia Army Aviation Association site at http://www.fourays.org/index2.htm has an editorial and Brian Cooper's comments on Iraq situation.
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RAAF fighter pilots were given the opportunity ofserving in Vietnam as Forward Air Controllers. In addition to duty as FACs, six fighter pilots also saw service in American Phantom squadrons in Vietnam.
Wonder what those six guys ended up doing?
Wonder what those six guys ended up doing?
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Sqdn Ldr Allan Reed RAAF flew USAF Phantoms in SVN and retired from the RAAF as an Air Vice Marshal. A few years back Allan was guest speaker at our annual 18 August Vietnam Veterans Commemoration ceremony (held on the anniversary of the battle of Long Tan ) at the Melbourne Shrine. He was doing well as a consultant.
Arthur Sibthorpe (ex Korean campaign) flew as a FAC in SVN but don't know how he's getting on. Like many of us Arthur would be into his '70s now but hopefully still flying.
Arthur Sibthorpe (ex Korean campaign) flew as a FAC in SVN but don't know how he's getting on. Like many of us Arthur would be into his '70s now but hopefully still flying.
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Hasn't this one had some hot responses????
Let say I wish the guys going there a safe jorney, hope you you all come back safe and unharmed I suport you all 100%
and I think simon creen is a moron
Let say I wish the guys going there a safe jorney, hope you you all come back safe and unharmed I suport you all 100%
and I think simon creen is a moron
Mr Howard is serious.
Drinking with some Yank fighter pilots somwhere in the Gulf and hear the Hornet guys have been made welcome in Kuwait. Would prefer the lazy life in Oman that Orion guys seem to be enjoying.
You can get a drink in Muscat but the Kuwaiti desert very dry.
Good luck.
Drinking with some Yank fighter pilots somwhere in the Gulf and hear the Hornet guys have been made welcome in Kuwait. Would prefer the lazy life in Oman that Orion guys seem to be enjoying.
You can get a drink in Muscat but the Kuwaiti desert very dry.
Good luck.
