unsw degrees etc
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unsw degrees etc
The fact is a uni degree is pretty useless unless you're trying to get into Qantas and we know what sorta percentage of pilot applicants that is. Where you do it is even less of interest as are your grades. The only reason airlines want their pilots to have degrees is because the number of employees in a company can raise the status of a company on the Forune 500 list and therefore the price of the stock - at least that's how it works in the US and I'm guessing similar in oz. This is what i"ve heard anyway.
Also it helps to have a bit of grey matter upstairs if you do get into the airlines. Ground school is harder than any uni course or ATPL subject I ever did. But don't get too excited because you think your uni has a better course. At the end of the day it won't really matter
Also it helps to have a bit of grey matter upstairs if you do get into the airlines. Ground school is harder than any uni course or ATPL subject I ever did. But don't get too excited because you think your uni has a better course. At the end of the day it won't really matter
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our systems ground school made the ATPL systems test look like a piece of **** and we had a week to do the course do the study and take the test... oh and pharmacy...I'm just a cartel lord not the chemist
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druglord
anyone with a degree will be looked upon more favourably than one with merely a pilot's licence qualification. it's not a matter of which course is more difficult, it's the vast exposure one gains at uni and therefore the more resourceful one will be to a company.
a DEGREE, is ALWAYS beneficial. many people these days are making a big fuss about " what's the point of going to uni? you don't need a degree to fly! " because they are the perfect example of "what happens when you grow up flying with only a high school certificate and pilot's licence" - all they know is how to operate an aircraft (and bitch about management). if one is an AIRLINE PILOT, then be an AIRLINE PILOT. AIRLINE pilots must not only know how to fly, they must possess the FOUNDATION of KNOWLEDGE about AIRLINE BUSINESS. the right degree program will provide these fundamental knowledge and skills.
anyone with a degree will be looked upon more favourably than one with merely a pilot's licence qualification. it's not a matter of which course is more difficult, it's the vast exposure one gains at uni and therefore the more resourceful one will be to a company.
a DEGREE, is ALWAYS beneficial. many people these days are making a big fuss about " what's the point of going to uni? you don't need a degree to fly! " because they are the perfect example of "what happens when you grow up flying with only a high school certificate and pilot's licence" - all they know is how to operate an aircraft (and bitch about management). if one is an AIRLINE PILOT, then be an AIRLINE PILOT. AIRLINE pilots must not only know how to fly, they must possess the FOUNDATION of KNOWLEDGE about AIRLINE BUSINESS. the right degree program will provide these fundamental knowledge and skills.
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Well Hachiouji-shi...............
Clearly your degree course did not include the component 'Windups 101'.
A nice try for an amateur though! Just a tad over the top to achieve a passing grade.
Back to the books for you laddie.
Clearly your degree course did not include the component 'Windups 101'.
A nice try for an amateur though! Just a tad over the top to achieve a passing grade.
Back to the books for you laddie.
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Clearly. you're one of "those" I was refering to (if you don't have one). Thanks for posting your reply as it just backs up my statement, right place, right time. You got to evolve with the world.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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a DEGREE, is ALWAYS beneficial. many people these days are making a big fuss about " what's the point of going to uni? you don't need a degree to fly! " because they are the perfect example of "what happens when you grow up flying with only a high school certificate and pilot's licence" - all they know is how to operate an aircraft (and bitch about management).
HS, sounds like you're starting to believe those patronising sales pitches we hear on commercial radio at uni enrolment times. Perhaps some people just need formal education more than others
....it's the vast exposure one gains at uni.....
Uni's are good, in their place.
One thing they cannot do is dish out the 'hard knocks' of potential un-employment at a moments notice, of working at a trade or otherwise in the working environment outside uni's.
Your aspersion that airlines are gonna look at you with rose coloured glasses and forget/disregard all others if you have a uni degree is a smidgen departed from reasonable thinking. Yep, I'd definetely reckon that you would be looked at as at least 'educated', but the wealth of experience that prior and differing qualifications in other fields would bring more of a sense of balance to one's application to major airlines.
I've just witnessed this very thing. Congrats Boss, you've certainly earned it, and you've certainly given me new drive and determination to get there, thank-you.
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Degrees
I dont think I can speak for the vast majority but I will attempt to in saying that those who claim that a degree is a waste of time usually have no idea what is involved both cost and work wise and therefore dont have one.
I personally find that if one can afford a degree then why not... ???? What is the big disadvantge of having one. I am due to complete mine soon at unsw and I am a damn sight proud of what I have done. Try though that ATPL is the one to get. No one will look at you without those subjects.
IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT GO FOR IT
I personally find that if one can afford a degree then why not... ???? What is the big disadvantge of having one. I am due to complete mine soon at unsw and I am a damn sight proud of what I have done. Try though that ATPL is the one to get. No one will look at you without those subjects.
IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT GO FOR IT
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From reading your posts "Hachioji-shi" I'd say you have just stepped onto the street of life and are still very wet behind the whatsits!
It is fact that knowledge however gained is valuable and to someone as ignorant as you with obviously a nicely framed degree who cannot understand that you do not have to go to university to gain knowledge, you obviously learned nothing while paying for it.
Some of the greatest movers and shakers in industry and life got there degrees on the streets for free.
Likewise some very good aviators got their knowledge at the same school of life and we didn't need some "snotty nosed" academic justifying their closeted existence by handing out nicely framed degrees.
Be a pleasure to have you as my F/O oneday sonny you may learn something - IF YOU WANT TO
It is fact that knowledge however gained is valuable and to someone as ignorant as you with obviously a nicely framed degree who cannot understand that you do not have to go to university to gain knowledge, you obviously learned nothing while paying for it.
Some of the greatest movers and shakers in industry and life got there degrees on the streets for free.
Likewise some very good aviators got their knowledge at the same school of life and we didn't need some "snotty nosed" academic justifying their closeted existence by handing out nicely framed degrees.
Be a pleasure to have you as my F/O oneday sonny you may learn something - IF YOU WANT TO
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haichi-jou,
perhaps you are winding up...if so I appreciate it...it's nice to get a windup on a topic i originated. If not, I'm talking from past experience. I have a degree and an airline job, albeit a regional and I can tell you now, that none of the jobs that i've had have even mentioned degrees except what I've had in my resume.
As for life experience from uni....come off it...unless you consider drinking beer a life experience. Uni lecturers know nothing of the real aviation world anyway...like the saying goes...those who can do it, those who can't teach.
perhaps you are winding up...if so I appreciate it...it's nice to get a windup on a topic i originated. If not, I'm talking from past experience. I have a degree and an airline job, albeit a regional and I can tell you now, that none of the jobs that i've had have even mentioned degrees except what I've had in my resume.
As for life experience from uni....come off it...unless you consider drinking beer a life experience. Uni lecturers know nothing of the real aviation world anyway...like the saying goes...those who can do it, those who can't teach.
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If you wish to get a degree, I recommend something other than an aviation degree. My thoughts would be get something that maybe useful to you should your aviation career take a downfall due to whatever reason. (You can always do an aviation degree later on in life if you wish)
Regardless of what people say, a degree of whatever sort should put you in good sted in an interview - it shows that you have the capacity to study, the ability to solve problems, and furthermore should improve your communication and interpersonal skills - something a fair proportion of the aviation community lacks.
Regardless of what people say, a degree of whatever sort should put you in good sted in an interview - it shows that you have the capacity to study, the ability to solve problems, and furthermore should improve your communication and interpersonal skills - something a fair proportion of the aviation community lacks.
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RamAirTurbine has got it in one - well, the second paragraph anyway! Uni degrees are excellent for all the reasons RAT mentioned - and the airlines know it.
Regarding the first paragraph... it's a good and valid argument, but to provide a contrasting view: I've only ever wanted to fly, so why do anything else? Most of the aviation degrees around provide avenues for other jobs within the industry. Also, a lot of industries recommended a degree, so isn't an aviation degree as valid in these other industries, as a non-aviation degree is to being a pilot! It's an overly simplistic view of course, but surely you should study what interests you.
Regardless, druglord you are absolutely correct in claiming an aviation degree has no value (for you anyway). Your attitude towards it would prevent you from receiving any benefit. The valid, coherant, and intelligent point of view that RAT has is what's needed to reap the rewards of any degree. Strangely enough it's what airlines like too!
Lancer
Edited to try to offset the results of a long day at work
Regarding the first paragraph... it's a good and valid argument, but to provide a contrasting view: I've only ever wanted to fly, so why do anything else? Most of the aviation degrees around provide avenues for other jobs within the industry. Also, a lot of industries recommended a degree, so isn't an aviation degree as valid in these other industries, as a non-aviation degree is to being a pilot! It's an overly simplistic view of course, but surely you should study what interests you.
Regardless, druglord you are absolutely correct in claiming an aviation degree has no value (for you anyway). Your attitude towards it would prevent you from receiving any benefit. The valid, coherant, and intelligent point of view that RAT has is what's needed to reap the rewards of any degree. Strangely enough it's what airlines like too!
Lancer
Edited to try to offset the results of a long day at work
Last edited by *Lancer*; 6th Jan 2003 at 10:15.
Can't resist this one. It can be a wind up both ways! Love it!
Maybe we can look at it this way -
How many of Qantas / Virgin present senior staff such as Chief Pilots, Fleet Managers, Line Captains, C/T Captains, Ops Managers ect have Uni aviation degrees?
In 15 / 20 years time it will reverse. But will things be better?
Doubt it.
Maybe we can look at it this way -
How many of Qantas / Virgin present senior staff such as Chief Pilots, Fleet Managers, Line Captains, C/T Captains, Ops Managers ect have Uni aviation degrees?
In 15 / 20 years time it will reverse. But will things be better?
Doubt it.
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megle2, I'm not sure whether you're implying that senior staff do or don't have degrees... but many of the Qantas senior pilots do. Its all part of professional development isn't it?
Last edited by *Lancer*; 7th Jan 2003 at 01:50.
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lancer,
all, i'm saying is that my degree, though it was an aviation degree helped me in no tangible way that i can see. It taught me nothing about real world flying, it had no contribution whatsoever to gettting an airline job, and all I can do is hope that some other airline that i apply for in the future will want that block filled for the exact reasons I mentioned in my first post and that just maybe...will be a contributing factor. I don't know what it's done for you, but I think you're overating the benefits a degree has for MOST flying jobs.
all, i'm saying is that my degree, though it was an aviation degree helped me in no tangible way that i can see. It taught me nothing about real world flying, it had no contribution whatsoever to gettting an airline job, and all I can do is hope that some other airline that i apply for in the future will want that block filled for the exact reasons I mentioned in my first post and that just maybe...will be a contributing factor. I don't know what it's done for you, but I think you're overating the benefits a degree has for MOST flying jobs.
Nunc est bibendum
druggie, you're absolutely correct that a degree does nothing for you in terms of flying an aircraft and actually doing the job. I'm doing one now and some of the things that I've got from it include:
Increased awareness and knowledge of the aviation industry and therefore greater confidence when discussing issues such as training, economics, HF, CRM, etc, etc. I've also improved significantly my writing skills, spelling and a whole heap of other things that matter not one zot when driving the aircraft but will assist in other ways over the years.
Increased awareness and knowledge of the aviation industry and therefore greater confidence when discussing issues such as training, economics, HF, CRM, etc, etc. I've also improved significantly my writing skills, spelling and a whole heap of other things that matter not one zot when driving the aircraft but will assist in other ways over the years.