Working conditions/pay.
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Working conditions/pay.
This has probably been done but I thought I'd give it a go.
I've been around GA for a few years now and have seen and heard all sorts of stories about working conditions and treatment of pilots. Personally I've had some pretty bad and some quite good.
What have you guys/gals experienced?
Do you work 16 hrs a day and get paid only for flying?
Do you only turn up when there is a flight on and then go home?
Do you work for good people?
Days off (mmm what are they...)?
Are you being paid by the award?
Will you be sacked if you start saying "no" to people?
Any stories would be great. I recently heard of Metro drivers (captains) working in Coles to afford a living. On the other hand I know of guys on singles who are doing pretty well.
I've been around GA for a few years now and have seen and heard all sorts of stories about working conditions and treatment of pilots. Personally I've had some pretty bad and some quite good.
What have you guys/gals experienced?
Do you work 16 hrs a day and get paid only for flying?
Do you only turn up when there is a flight on and then go home?
Do you work for good people?
Days off (mmm what are they...)?
Are you being paid by the award?
Will you be sacked if you start saying "no" to people?
Any stories would be great. I recently heard of Metro drivers (captains) working in Coles to afford a living. On the other hand I know of guys on singles who are doing pretty well.
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I'm working in a well paying job (ie not flying) at the moment which should see my bank account reach a point where i can go work for squat doing something i enjoy and still afford the basics like food and accom.
If your doing something you love then the pay doesn't matter as much
If your doing something you love then the pay doesn't matter as much
Therein lies the reason why pilots will always struggle to make a decent living out of flying when some people are willing to do it for free.
You have paid thousands of dollars for your qualification Aussie, would you work your current non flying job for free, would you be happy if your boss sacked you and told you that someone else offered to do it for free?
You have paid thousands of dollars for your qualification Aussie, would you work your current non flying job for free, would you be happy if your boss sacked you and told you that someone else offered to do it for free?
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I must agree Puff,
I have lost hours in the past becuase other people have offered to do it for free. Unfortunately the are alot of people keen for a break ,but whats worse is thamount of people out there willing to exploit that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have lost hours in the past becuase other people have offered to do it for free. Unfortunately the are alot of people keen for a break ,but whats worse is thamount of people out there willing to exploit that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Aussie - depending on where you go you might be pleasantly surprised. I never expected to see people being paid properly when I first set out but have been surprised on more than one occasion. There are companies out there doing the right thing. These same companies are also more likely to be doing things by the book in the air.
At the same time though I've seen collegues get paid very little for their efforts. Things are changing though - companies are becoming aware that they are no longer invincible.
8-8ths - did this really happen? There are ways of solving this sort of problem. I'm sure you've got some plan for this individual later on down the track.
Working for under the award is one thing - for free is a totally different ball game.
At the same time though I've seen collegues get paid very little for their efforts. Things are changing though - companies are becoming aware that they are no longer invincible.
8-8ths - did this really happen? There are ways of solving this sort of problem. I'm sure you've got some plan for this individual later on down the track.
Working for under the award is one thing - for free is a totally different ball game.
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Good point puff.
8-8ths have you seen "goodfellas" or "casino"? The Sopranos is another great show.
Personally, I wouldn't contemplate working for free. As for those operators stuck in the dark ages - there is a fresh pot of coffee boiling can you smell it?
Luckily I've never had any trouble - all my people have done the right thing. But thats only because people before me have made a stand.
Happy New Year to you all
.
8-8ths have you seen "goodfellas" or "casino"? The Sopranos is another great show.
Personally, I wouldn't contemplate working for free. As for those operators stuck in the dark ages - there is a fresh pot of coffee boiling can you smell it?
Luckily I've never had any trouble - all my people have done the right thing. But thats only because people before me have made a stand.
Happy New Year to you all
.
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Yes I have worked long hours, and at times without any RDOs weeks on end, only to be paid weekly, and i'll tell you what, it worked out to be a great hourly wage. LIttle flying, but also a little pay packet. It was my first job, after confronting the boss i got a raise, actually a 50% raise, still that wasn't much, but I had a fully equiped house supplied. I have had other jobs where the pay was ok, but thought I would be fired if I dare say NO, I'm no longer with that shonky operator.
At the moment I am only casual where I am, and am working another job, but at times I have been working 3 jobs to pay debts off and to try and get a head. Tell you what working 70 hour weeks then having to go flying isn't the safest, but it is making ends meet at the moment. But what ever you do, please don't work for free.
At the moment I am only casual where I am, and am working another job, but at times I have been working 3 jobs to pay debts off and to try and get a head. Tell you what working 70 hour weeks then having to go flying isn't the safest, but it is making ends meet at the moment. But what ever you do, please don't work for free.
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Had good and great times, met a lot o fantastic people, got to go to some awesome places and get paid for it, one awkward flight and had to stand up for myself time and overall mostly fun times..... for many starting out its an industry full of inuendo and rife with rumours.
Its was you make it... If want to be paid award.... find an opertor who pays it. If you want to stay safe and fly well kept equipment... find the operator who keeps their planes as such... the penalties for operating outside the law for the benefit of logbook requirements can be fatal.
Individuals set standards... not much use in killing yourself over a bad operator. The "freeby" guys I knew of have bent airframes and fatals to their credit... An operator isnt worth giving up your life for. To use an example.... a pilot would not take a bullet for a bad opertor if someone was standing there with a gun..... why the hell to they still continue to risk "take bullets" by flying outside regulations and the laws of physics at the operators request??
Due to circumstances surrounding a particular event which no doubt most readers are aware of.... i am no longer in the aviation industry.... I still hold a CPL with some ATPL subjects out of the way and will finish that off. At no time was my licence or the ability to hold that licence ever in any doubt, but I miss the flying sometimes.... There are no aircraft to fly where I am these days and it means going for a 5-6 hour drive to find one. (pretty good indication I need to buy one!)
But apart from that, I thoroughly enjoyed being involved..... and you never know what is around the corner!
Its was you make it... If want to be paid award.... find an opertor who pays it. If you want to stay safe and fly well kept equipment... find the operator who keeps their planes as such... the penalties for operating outside the law for the benefit of logbook requirements can be fatal.
Individuals set standards... not much use in killing yourself over a bad operator. The "freeby" guys I knew of have bent airframes and fatals to their credit... An operator isnt worth giving up your life for. To use an example.... a pilot would not take a bullet for a bad opertor if someone was standing there with a gun..... why the hell to they still continue to risk "take bullets" by flying outside regulations and the laws of physics at the operators request??
Due to circumstances surrounding a particular event which no doubt most readers are aware of.... i am no longer in the aviation industry.... I still hold a CPL with some ATPL subjects out of the way and will finish that off. At no time was my licence or the ability to hold that licence ever in any doubt, but I miss the flying sometimes.... There are no aircraft to fly where I am these days and it means going for a 5-6 hour drive to find one. (pretty good indication I need to buy one!)
But apart from that, I thoroughly enjoyed being involved..... and you never know what is around the corner!
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I may have been lucky but over the many years I have always been paid close enough to what I was supposed to get. Yes sometimes a little under award but sometimes over the award when an operator values your work.
But as N.C. summised - you are free to choose the operator you work for.
NO one can force you to work for a shonk - It's your decision.
8 8ths Blue: I see no difference between those who work for free and those who 'exploit' the 'freebie'. If you have lost hours in the past then I hope you have learnt from that and go work for a decent operator or that you are currently working for a decent operator - they are out there.
I will give you a hint - They are usually the ones who have been around a while and have half decent fleets and have staff who stick around for at least a season or until they are ready for the next jump in their career.
But as N.C. summised - you are free to choose the operator you work for.
NO one can force you to work for a shonk - It's your decision.
8 8ths Blue: I see no difference between those who work for free and those who 'exploit' the 'freebie'. If you have lost hours in the past then I hope you have learnt from that and go work for a decent operator or that you are currently working for a decent operator - they are out there.
I will give you a hint - They are usually the ones who have been around a while and have half decent fleets and have staff who stick around for at least a season or until they are ready for the next jump in their career.
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ArnhemDog - The idea of post was to just get an idea of what other guys and gals are getting paid and what their working conditions are like. I know what its like in my area but don't know much about the flying down south or instructing for that matter.
Just wanted to hear what people had experienced- good or bad.
Happy New Year all.
Just wanted to hear what people had experienced- good or bad.
Happy New Year all.
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I don't/won't work for free, i don't beleive in doing that
but i do accept that pay in aviation will be low. I work for award rates now and i intend to do so in aviation in the future
but i do accept that pay in aviation will be low. I work for award rates now and i intend to do so in aviation in the future
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I must work for the best day VFR charter company in OZ
I am glad to say that I can report nothing bad about the way I am treated...
I am a casual pilot. I go to work only when I have to fly which I do almost every day for most of the year. I get paid almost everything I am entitled to.
If I decide a flight can not be done, it is my decision and nothing is held against me so long as I can back up with my decision with a mix of common sense, logic and the good old law books.
Anyone who offers to do my job for free or for less gets shown the door and is told to **** off....
It wasnt always this way, when I first started off, some of these conditions did not exist in company for which I still work. Some of the pilots created a good argument and presented it to the CP who quite luckily shared our thoughts and acted upon our suggestions.
Considering some of the rumours/stories I have heard about other companies, I believe that I have one of the best employers in VFR aviation. I sincerely hope that there are many others who share my good fortune. If there is not, perhaps you too could risk taking a stand for what you are not only entitled, but deserve. I believe the money we pay to get trained up added to the amount of responsibilty we shoulder (even in light A/C) earns us the right to every penny we get and more. Should I ever become a CP, it would be a priority to treat anyone as I am being treated now if not better.
If we all work together, perhaps we can alter the treatment of GA pilots although I fear I may be dreaming... Interested to hear your thoughts.
I am a casual pilot. I go to work only when I have to fly which I do almost every day for most of the year. I get paid almost everything I am entitled to.
If I decide a flight can not be done, it is my decision and nothing is held against me so long as I can back up with my decision with a mix of common sense, logic and the good old law books.
Anyone who offers to do my job for free or for less gets shown the door and is told to **** off....
It wasnt always this way, when I first started off, some of these conditions did not exist in company for which I still work. Some of the pilots created a good argument and presented it to the CP who quite luckily shared our thoughts and acted upon our suggestions.
Considering some of the rumours/stories I have heard about other companies, I believe that I have one of the best employers in VFR aviation. I sincerely hope that there are many others who share my good fortune. If there is not, perhaps you too could risk taking a stand for what you are not only entitled, but deserve. I believe the money we pay to get trained up added to the amount of responsibilty we shoulder (even in light A/C) earns us the right to every penny we get and more. Should I ever become a CP, it would be a priority to treat anyone as I am being treated now if not better.
If we all work together, perhaps we can alter the treatment of GA pilots although I fear I may be dreaming... Interested to hear your thoughts.
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Industry in general
Mr Hat, you get good operators and shonky operators and in that regard aviation is no different to any other industry.
If you or anybody else is working for an individual/corporate entity in this field that insists on breaking the rules or not paying at least the award and you're not happy with the situation......confront them/it!
One of two things will happen
A: situation is resolved amicably
B: situation is not resolved amicably..therefore quit!(and report them to Casa!)
I've been in that position and even though it put me out of the industry for a month or two after quitting, I've fallen on my feet and now am working for an operator that toes the line.
It really comes down to personal standards as put forward by the above postings ,as long as you insist in being up to scratch, this line of work can't be beaten.
Thats my 5 bobs' worth
If you or anybody else is working for an individual/corporate entity in this field that insists on breaking the rules or not paying at least the award and you're not happy with the situation......confront them/it!
One of two things will happen
A: situation is resolved amicably
B: situation is not resolved amicably..therefore quit!(and report them to Casa!)
I've been in that position and even though it put me out of the industry for a month or two after quitting, I've fallen on my feet and now am working for an operator that toes the line.
It really comes down to personal standards as put forward by the above postings ,as long as you insist in being up to scratch, this line of work can't be beaten.
Thats my 5 bobs' worth
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Award
I have heard and been around aviation for long enough to know that those inconsiderable fools who will work for free will be the death of the aviation industry.
What kind of fool pays upwards of $40K to get their CPL and Instrument Rating only to belittle him/herself by working for free. These people are no better than the scabs that worked during the 1989 strike and should be black banned by the AFAP.
I spoke to one pilot who said he would fly for free, given he was a millionaires son, and I almost throttled him for it. Work for the award and if you don't like the conditions move on but remain loyal where loyalty is given.
What kind of fool pays upwards of $40K to get their CPL and Instrument Rating only to belittle him/herself by working for free. These people are no better than the scabs that worked during the 1989 strike and should be black banned by the AFAP.
I spoke to one pilot who said he would fly for free, given he was a millionaires son, and I almost throttled him for it. Work for the award and if you don't like the conditions move on but remain loyal where loyalty is given.
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Can anyone explain to me why some operators fall under an award system yet others are exempt....?
If an operator is exempt does this mean that he/she can just make up any pay system?
How do people get away with not paying the award?
If an operator is exempt does this mean that he/she can just make up any pay system?
How do people get away with not paying the award?
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Congratulations to every single pilot that has posted here!!
Pat yourself on the back.
Never ever work for below the award or for free. That is why trying to earn a buck in aviation is so hard these days, these rich kids get their licence and then fly for free whilst daddy pays the bills!
I have been flying overseas for a while now and believe me, good operators pay good money for good pilots!
(I am not a good pilot!
)It's been said before but I'll say it again.
Let's stick together and finally get rid of this attitude that you have to fly for free to get ahead.
Small point, I flew for free once......Then when we got there I drank five times my wages in booze!
Keep the bucks coming....................
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I am about to embark on my aviation career and start building hours "up north". As sure as the sun comes up in the morning I am not going to fly for free.
I have spent to much time and money on gaining my qualifications as many other pilots have done.
To any pilot that works or is thinking of working for free or accepts bad standards you are only spoiling it for yourself and your learned colleagues.
Thanks Mr Hat for initiating this topic.
Ash767
I have spent to much time and money on gaining my qualifications as many other pilots have done.
To any pilot that works or is thinking of working for free or accepts bad standards you are only spoiling it for yourself and your learned colleagues.
Thanks Mr Hat for initiating this topic.
Ash767
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My pleasure Ash - its good to here people with the right attitude from the onset.
A while ago a well liked pilot tossed the idea around of coming in for free to "help out" thus possibly shafting other employees and future employees. His comment/good idea was quickly retracted when the boys piped up. Was a nice show of unity amongst pilots- the senior guys led by example.
Important to remember that what you do now will have an effect on the new guys later on down the track. When you get your first job - work damn hard, be honest and lead by example.
To those of you who have made a stand - your efforts have not been forgotten - Thanks.
A while ago a well liked pilot tossed the idea around of coming in for free to "help out" thus possibly shafting other employees and future employees. His comment/good idea was quickly retracted when the boys piped up. Was a nice show of unity amongst pilots- the senior guys led by example.
Important to remember that what you do now will have an effect on the new guys later on down the track. When you get your first job - work damn hard, be honest and lead by example.
To those of you who have made a stand - your efforts have not been forgotten - Thanks.