Fatal crash pilot should not have flown: coroner
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Dragchute, good comment.
I guess what I was trying to allude to is that the Pilot may have realised that the engine failure was the direct result of fuel starvation, as opposed to a mechanical failure. If so he may have become totally pre-occupied with restarting the engine/s by re-establishing fuel supply.
As I understand it from media reports during the inquest, the Police airwing management had allowed the Pilot to operate in an environment beyond his legal entitlement and abillity. This is where my comment re the chief Pilot is directed.
However there are human factors I feel that may also explain why the Pilot himself undertook this mission, which have more to do with being a Police Officer than being a Pilot.
It is accepted that a Police Officer's occupation can, by its very nature, be dangerous. Often Police Officer's are required to confront extremely violent and dangerous situations and take chances & risks that the rest of the community cannot imagine. (armed offenders, violent domestics, car chases, injured mamed victims, deaths by murder, suicide and accidents.. we see it on tv)
In the daily lives of these Officers, it may- I suggest be paramount for them to OBEY orders and instructions that you and I would not even contemplate doing. When given an instruction to fly to a remote community to quell a violent & dangerous situation, the Pilot followed orders.
If (and I am drawing a long bow here) the Pilot was instructed not to incur overnight costs...........
I agree with others who recommend civillian pilots for the airwing, not because the Police Pilots are inferior (I don't think they are) but because they are already desensitised to danger and conditioned to taking risks and ORDERS,.
I guess what I was trying to allude to is that the Pilot may have realised that the engine failure was the direct result of fuel starvation, as opposed to a mechanical failure. If so he may have become totally pre-occupied with restarting the engine/s by re-establishing fuel supply.
As I understand it from media reports during the inquest, the Police airwing management had allowed the Pilot to operate in an environment beyond his legal entitlement and abillity. This is where my comment re the chief Pilot is directed.
However there are human factors I feel that may also explain why the Pilot himself undertook this mission, which have more to do with being a Police Officer than being a Pilot.
It is accepted that a Police Officer's occupation can, by its very nature, be dangerous. Often Police Officer's are required to confront extremely violent and dangerous situations and take chances & risks that the rest of the community cannot imagine. (armed offenders, violent domestics, car chases, injured mamed victims, deaths by murder, suicide and accidents.. we see it on tv)
In the daily lives of these Officers, it may- I suggest be paramount for them to OBEY orders and instructions that you and I would not even contemplate doing. When given an instruction to fly to a remote community to quell a violent & dangerous situation, the Pilot followed orders.
If (and I am drawing a long bow here) the Pilot was instructed not to incur overnight costs...........
I agree with others who recommend civillian pilots for the airwing, not because the Police Pilots are inferior (I don't think they are) but because they are already desensitised to danger and conditioned to taking risks and ORDERS,.
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VJET & Dragchute: my point entirely!
In an organisation with a suitable safety culture and appropriate oversight, these issues are minimised to the benefit of the pilots, passengers (paying or otherwise) and organisation.
At 1000' AGL at night, within the circling area (2.66nm max from the nearest point of the runway) of an aerodrome well known to the pilot, engine failure/s should not be a loss of control event. Speed-Mix-Pitch-Power-pumps-tanks-switches; no engine response, feather, max glide, if unable to make rwy toward most suitable area, & fuel off / minimum speed prior to impact. Nope, ain't easy to make a conscious decision to bingle the aeroplane (or at least, never having had to do it myself I will assume that), but given the choice of a slow controlled impact vs a vertical uncontrolled one........
With the appropriate organisational culture, fatigue and training inadequacies should not be part of the equation. The elements you mention of Police culture may well be true - that is why RFDS have always had a policy of 'one man, one job'. A doctor should not be put in the position of choosing between a medical and an aviation imperative, so RFDS has professional pilots who are not part of the medical information chain (or at least they shouldn't be).
This was a tragedy, but as long as Government and semi-government departments continue to duplicate and dilute resources, and attempt to run a high-dollar enterprise on a low-dollar budget, we will keep seeing government employees on board old aeroplanes and if/when the luck element runs out.........then more of the same.
In an organisation with a suitable safety culture and appropriate oversight, these issues are minimised to the benefit of the pilots, passengers (paying or otherwise) and organisation.
At 1000' AGL at night, within the circling area (2.66nm max from the nearest point of the runway) of an aerodrome well known to the pilot, engine failure/s should not be a loss of control event. Speed-Mix-Pitch-Power-pumps-tanks-switches; no engine response, feather, max glide, if unable to make rwy toward most suitable area, & fuel off / minimum speed prior to impact. Nope, ain't easy to make a conscious decision to bingle the aeroplane (or at least, never having had to do it myself I will assume that), but given the choice of a slow controlled impact vs a vertical uncontrolled one........
With the appropriate organisational culture, fatigue and training inadequacies should not be part of the equation. The elements you mention of Police culture may well be true - that is why RFDS have always had a policy of 'one man, one job'. A doctor should not be put in the position of choosing between a medical and an aviation imperative, so RFDS has professional pilots who are not part of the medical information chain (or at least they shouldn't be).
This was a tragedy, but as long as Government and semi-government departments continue to duplicate and dilute resources, and attempt to run a high-dollar enterprise on a low-dollar budget, we will keep seeing government employees on board old aeroplanes and if/when the luck element runs out.........then more of the same.
Seasonally Adjusted
VJet,
I don't think the overnight expense would have been the issue.
The boys would have been very keen to avoid overnighting at Kiwikurra, the facilities are very basic and the "customers" would come back to haunt them during the evening.
A big factor in the "pressonitis" department.
I don't think the overnight expense would have been the issue.
The boys would have been very keen to avoid overnighting at Kiwikurra, the facilities are very basic and the "customers" would come back to haunt them during the evening.
A big factor in the "pressonitis" department.
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I really think that a lot of the comments here have been somewhat clueless.
What's the bet that the guy WAS competent.
The area remote and the real cause of the prang was that the regional infrastructure is so absent that he had to make the flight without being able to top up the tanks.
The poor bastard just got caught out.
ymmv
glueing
What's the bet that the guy WAS competent.
The area remote and the real cause of the prang was that the regional infrastructure is so absent that he had to make the flight without being able to top up the tanks.
The poor bastard just got caught out.
ymmv
glueing
Glueing have you read the ATSB report?
That is why both engines stopped due to fuel starvation with 165 litres of useable fuel on board.
Do you think 165 litres is insufficient?
I agree. 
What's the bet that the guy WAS competent.
...make the flight without being able to top up the tanks.
...a lot of the comments here have been somewhat clueless.
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While in Perth last week I was reading the West Australian news paper when I noticed a small article relating to this post.
It said that the deceased Pilot's wife and one of the police passengers partner are taking the Commissioner of Police Mr Matthews to court over the deaths of their respective other halves.
Having read the previous posts I guess the quiet pay off didn't work for these grieving loved ones and they are taking their chances with the legal system.
If it does end up in court on a civil bases I guess there might be some very worried Police managers as I am sure the ensuing media coverage will sensationalise the short comings and any negligence on their behalves.
A civil damages claim might run into millions.....
With this situation I guess the Commissioner will cop the rap (no punn intended) If it was a commercial operator I guess the Manager would cop it. Sobering thought for operators!!!!
It said that the deceased Pilot's wife and one of the police passengers partner are taking the Commissioner of Police Mr Matthews to court over the deaths of their respective other halves.
Having read the previous posts I guess the quiet pay off didn't work for these grieving loved ones and they are taking their chances with the legal system.
If it does end up in court on a civil bases I guess there might be some very worried Police managers as I am sure the ensuing media coverage will sensationalise the short comings and any negligence on their behalves.
A civil damages claim might run into millions.....
With this situation I guess the Commissioner will cop the rap (no punn intended) If it was a commercial operator I guess the Manager would cop it. Sobering thought for operators!!!!
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I agree with all you guys on the fact that the Police should use civilian pilots.
In canada about two years ago the RCMP (police) lost a caravan, they have the policy of using only officers as pilots, after that crash they have now changed their policy and use the best person for the job, which they have admitted are civilians.
My friend is now driving their new caravan and is looking forward to the police pension plan!!
Let's hope the Aussie boys in Blue get with the program.
In canada about two years ago the RCMP (police) lost a caravan, they have the policy of using only officers as pilots, after that crash they have now changed their policy and use the best person for the job, which they have admitted are civilians.
My friend is now driving their new caravan and is looking forward to the police pension plan!!
Let's hope the Aussie boys in Blue get with the program.
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Transparent system
You have to wonder how transparent the recruiting system is. I know someone who applied for a position in the Police Airwing in another remote part of Australia. He met all the minimum selection criteria, had over 16,000 hours incident free, had flown the same aircraft type in the same remote locations previously but for the RFDS, and didn't even get an interview.
I suspect that sometimes jobs are advertised as a matter of course when there is already someone earmarked for the position already.
I suspect that sometimes jobs are advertised as a matter of course when there is already someone earmarked for the position already.
