Paying for your Type Rating
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Paying for your Type Rating
Had this discussion with a work colleague the other day, about the pro's and con's of paying for a jet type rating - and I'm interested in getting additional input from those who can be bothered to offer their 50 cents' worth...
With Virgin Blue and various other operators setting the tone for only taking drivers who "buy" their way in, it would seem that unless you are one of the chosen few who meet a certain pyschological/educational/experience profile for selection by the "majors," the days of your new employer paying for your jet ticket are becoming a thing of the past.
I admit that in the past I've been quite vocal with those who know me, about the practise of "buying" a job, and held the view that if the boss really needs you to fly that plane then he can damned well pay for you to do it. I also had the belief that whilst this practise was unfortunately commonplace in GA, if one were ever to rise to the lofty heights of airline operations, this sort of behaviour would become nothing more than a repressed memory.
Thanks to VB and others, this is no more. So the question then becomes this: Whilst it is one thing to buy a jet type rating with the knowledge that a job offer is forthcoming upon completion, what about a type rating without any immediate employment prospects? Assuming one has the financial means to do so, is it showing initiative or foolhardiness?
Up until now I would have said you'd be nuts to spend that sort of cash on a type rating without any employment prospects upon completion - especially in the current employment climate. But after talking to my friend I'm not so sure, as this person made a rather interesting comment that has been lingering in my mind for days: "When you first decided you wanted to change careers to be a pilot, no-one was bashing down your door with job offers back then - yet you were still willing to blow thousands of $$$ to obtain commercial qualifications to put yourself in the running. So what's changed? Either you're committed to obtaining the qualifications to be in the running - or you're not."
Any takers?...
With Virgin Blue and various other operators setting the tone for only taking drivers who "buy" their way in, it would seem that unless you are one of the chosen few who meet a certain pyschological/educational/experience profile for selection by the "majors," the days of your new employer paying for your jet ticket are becoming a thing of the past.
I admit that in the past I've been quite vocal with those who know me, about the practise of "buying" a job, and held the view that if the boss really needs you to fly that plane then he can damned well pay for you to do it. I also had the belief that whilst this practise was unfortunately commonplace in GA, if one were ever to rise to the lofty heights of airline operations, this sort of behaviour would become nothing more than a repressed memory.
Thanks to VB and others, this is no more. So the question then becomes this: Whilst it is one thing to buy a jet type rating with the knowledge that a job offer is forthcoming upon completion, what about a type rating without any immediate employment prospects? Assuming one has the financial means to do so, is it showing initiative or foolhardiness?
Up until now I would have said you'd be nuts to spend that sort of cash on a type rating without any employment prospects upon completion - especially in the current employment climate. But after talking to my friend I'm not so sure, as this person made a rather interesting comment that has been lingering in my mind for days: "When you first decided you wanted to change careers to be a pilot, no-one was bashing down your door with job offers back then - yet you were still willing to blow thousands of $$$ to obtain commercial qualifications to put yourself in the running. So what's changed? Either you're committed to obtaining the qualifications to be in the running - or you're not."
Any takers?...
I have a problem with the use of the phrase "to buy your way in". If you want to be specific, VB offers pilots the job subject to them getting the type endorsement. The type endorsement does not lead to a job. A BIG difference. If you aren't what they want all the jet time in the world is not going to help.
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Something I have thought about from time to time. If one was to "buy" a jet rating with no employment offers what are the chances of getting on board with an operator that makes use of that type once you have obtained the relevent endorsement? Or is it just a bad idea?
Onya
Onya
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Icarus, I take your point, re phrasing. I guess it's the last paragraph in my first posting that I'm really emphasizing: The fact is, a large number of us began walking the path towards an aviation career with absolutely no idea of what to expect upon completion of training, other than to give it our level best, obtain the qualifications, and then see what happened from there.
I was a self-starter, with no hope of meeting the criteria for selection by the military or any airline cadet programs (due to age/education). Yet I've been fortunate enough to clock up a couple of thousand hours over the last few years - and never really been out of work as a pilot since completing my training, other than the odd break to go and earn some real money in order to further those qualifications by adding to them.
What my workmate has said (and quite frankly I'm having difficulty refuting the validity of her point), is that if we were all prepared to spend huge amounts of money on the initial qualification with no promise of employment, what's so different about doing the same with a jet type rating?
Has anyone done it and, if so, was it worth the effort?
I was a self-starter, with no hope of meeting the criteria for selection by the military or any airline cadet programs (due to age/education). Yet I've been fortunate enough to clock up a couple of thousand hours over the last few years - and never really been out of work as a pilot since completing my training, other than the odd break to go and earn some real money in order to further those qualifications by adding to them.
What my workmate has said (and quite frankly I'm having difficulty refuting the validity of her point), is that if we were all prepared to spend huge amounts of money on the initial qualification with no promise of employment, what's so different about doing the same with a jet type rating?
Has anyone done it and, if so, was it worth the effort?
A mate of ours spent a fair bit getting rated on the 767 and is now flying them for Brunei. He knew people who were already in the company, so maybe that had some bearing, but he had certainly paid his dues working around the country previously anyway.
It's obviously a gamble to invest (or blow) thousands, so it comes down to whether you think it's likely to pay off.
Then again, you can easily pay $26,000 for a decent motorbike these days, so it's not that crazy an idea.
Should the company pay though? The answer to that one no doubt depends on the current supply and demand situation with respect to pilots.
It's obviously a gamble to invest (or blow) thousands, so it comes down to whether you think it's likely to pay off.
Then again, you can easily pay $26,000 for a decent motorbike these days, so it's not that crazy an idea.
Should the company pay though? The answer to that one no doubt depends on the current supply and demand situation with respect to pilots.
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Nice try NTS, but no, I do not. What you are referring to is an entirely different matter, so please get your facts straight before mouthing off. Whilst I have said I find it hard to refute a certain point of view offered, at no time have I said I will actually follow such advice. I have presented the for's and against's simply in the interests of generating discussion/debate on an open forum.
Self funding additional qualifications with a view to enhancing your employability in the open market may be one thing, but accepting an offer of employment requiring a Type Rating or certain other qualifications, and then being expected to pay for training costs AFTER commencing employment and receiving such training is entirely something else - especially when it contravenes specific provisions of the Award.
If you would like to contribute to this discussion in a meaningful way (rather than having a jibe over sensitive issues which are a matter for the magistrate to rule on), I welcome your input.
Self funding additional qualifications with a view to enhancing your employability in the open market may be one thing, but accepting an offer of employment requiring a Type Rating or certain other qualifications, and then being expected to pay for training costs AFTER commencing employment and receiving such training is entirely something else - especially when it contravenes specific provisions of the Award.
If you would like to contribute to this discussion in a meaningful way (rather than having a jibe over sensitive issues which are a matter for the magistrate to rule on), I welcome your input.
Last edited by Bunglerat; 20th Oct 2002 at 03:16.
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"to buy your way in".
Interesting discussion, in that I guess we all do that when we start our training, certainly it seems to be the main source in Oz.
I am not familiar with the way QF cadet scheme works, but they aren't the only kids on the block.
So if we buy our CPL and "twin, IFR, type endorsements/ratings" and possibly ATPL by the usual "serf" system of building time, what's the difference from "buying" a higher rating to further enhance our employment propspects.
I guess you could include in that "buying" equation, the aviation degree that is rapidly becoming a requirement.
I guess it's a trade off and certainly a justification for the airline that does provide a rating to require a bond in some form.
The working off of the time related to the bond is just another way of "buying" it. n'est ce pas.
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Right place at the right time, is important as well.
In the very early seventies, had a friend who was the chief pilot of a charter company flying 707's, mostly in Africa. He mentioned that IF I had the rating, possibly a job might follow, no guarantees.
So, off to PanAmerican in SFO for the rating, which required, in addition to sim, nine hours in the aeroplane (training and checkride)...not cheap.
Called up my friend and mentioned the rating was in my pocket and he stated, come along now, we just bought another aeroplane and a Captain just quit...stepped directly into the left seat.
Several years later, after the company ceased trading, had FIVE interviews and job offers, all in command.
My advice, take the plunge, you never know what the future might bring...
In the very early seventies, had a friend who was the chief pilot of a charter company flying 707's, mostly in Africa. He mentioned that IF I had the rating, possibly a job might follow, no guarantees.
So, off to PanAmerican in SFO for the rating, which required, in addition to sim, nine hours in the aeroplane (training and checkride)...not cheap.
Called up my friend and mentioned the rating was in my pocket and he stated, come along now, we just bought another aeroplane and a Captain just quit...stepped directly into the left seat.
Several years later, after the company ceased trading, had FIVE interviews and job offers, all in command.
My advice, take the plunge, you never know what the future might bring...
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From what I understand, buying a type rating in Aust / NZ at the moment is almost a lost cause. With so many pilots having been made redundant throughout the world, many of the larger carriers that would of been happy 12 months ago to take on a bare typerated pilot now have their pick of a heck of alot of very experienced pilots who are looking for just any kind of work available. Would you choose a pilot with a brand new type rating or a pilot who's been on type for many years with 5-7,000 hours on type?
Unfortunately, 9/11 and the subsequent collapse of many airlines in both the US and Australia has meant that unless you have a job lined up that is a dead certainty, I would save your money at the moment..... Even having an employment contract does not always mean certainty of commencement these days!
From what I understand, VB are still taking pilots on without type ratings and at the moment, I'd save my money! Sorry.
Unfortunately, 9/11 and the subsequent collapse of many airlines in both the US and Australia has meant that unless you have a job lined up that is a dead certainty, I would save your money at the moment..... Even having an employment contract does not always mean certainty of commencement these days!
From what I understand, VB are still taking pilots on without type ratings and at the moment, I'd save my money! Sorry.
Good question scooter. From friends of mine in VB apparently it varies from case to case. It depends what you were doing immediately prior to gaining employment with VB, such as type flown and in what capacity.
The other fly in the ointment is that with self assessment for tax returns now the norm, those that claim but perhaps should not have may get away with it until a few years (7 max I think) later when they face a desk audit looking back at previous years returns.
The same situation exists with claims for deducting the cost of a C(ME)IR.
The other fly in the ointment is that with self assessment for tax returns now the norm, those that claim but perhaps should not have may get away with it until a few years (7 max I think) later when they face a desk audit looking back at previous years returns.
The same situation exists with claims for deducting the cost of a C(ME)IR.
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oh dear!
It has began...
Hell yeah!
Known as "furthering your career" and a HUGE 30% back from the taxman.
Helps to buy yourself another rating!
Only joking!
It has began...
Is it possible for a candidate working already as a pilot that has paid for the 737 rating to deduct it in his tax?
Known as "furthering your career" and a HUGE 30% back from the taxman.
Helps to buy yourself another rating!
Only joking!
