Spitfire Gear up at Scone

[treadigraph]

I think inadvertent gear up landings in WWII aircraft like the Spitfire are a relatively rare occurrence - off hand I can think of three in Europe (P-38, P-51 and a Seafire) in the last 40 or 50 years since I really started taking an interest in such types - obviously there may well have been others I've forgotten or never heard about. I vaguely recall another incident where the gear on a P-40 was retracted in error after landing - fortunately the main gear stayed down and only the tailwheel disappeared!

(A call from observant tower personnel works wonders, pretty sure it saved much embarrasment for a Twin Com pilot I saw get to within seconds of expensive scraping noises in front of a large audience way back the late 1970s!)

Most of the gear incidents either involve a problem beforehand or a collapse on landing - two seat Spits seem particularly prone to undercarriage collapses for some reason.

[Centaurus]

Originally Posted by megan

Ain't that the truth, you're only as good as your last flight. Our company check & trainer was the only one to ever land gear up, highly experienced, P-51, Meteor (Korea war), C-130. Had a second event in an Aero Commander. His gear up on a Willytown beach after a P-51 engine failure doesn't count. Came close myself but the gear warning that operated off airspeed and RADALT saved the day

That would have been Sergeant Lloyd "Bodgie" Knight at No 2 OTU RAAF Williamtown in january 1953. I think it was his first flight in a Mustang. He was knocked out in the prang. He thought the beach looked flat but too late saw it was sand dunes. He woke up covered in fuel but managed to wave at the Mustang that circled over him. The pilot of the Mustang was Flight Lieutenant Peter Middleton DFC who was a fighter combat instructor at Williamtown who in later years became a GA Examiner of Airmen at Moorabbin. Lloyd Knight also later became a helicopter Examiner of Airmen at Moorabbin. I last saw Lloyd circa 2019 when I gave him a few circuits in the Ansett Aviation Training B737-300 simulator. Lloyd died about two years ago

[ShyTorque]

Originally Posted by Captain Dart

In view of the amount restorers and operators spend on these aircraft, why do they not devise a mod involving GPS height AGL, flap and gear handle position sensing and a horn?

(Cue the old chestnut, 'I didn't hear Tower telling me my wheels weren't down because of that !!@@## horn!'.)

I flew the RAF Puma HC1, which was, I believe the RAF’s first helicopter with retractable undercarriage. It had flashing red warning lights connected to an airspeed switch. If the gear wasn’t down the lights flashed below 55 kts airspeed.

[Capt Fathom]

Originally Posted by ShyTorque

If the gear wasn’t down the lights flashed below 55 kts airspeed.

But if you flew frequently enough below 55kts you could become immune to that red flashing light!

[Arm out the window]

To digress a little further from the topic, as many will probably know, RAAF Macchis and other types had a beep transmission setup wired in to the undercarriage system. Turning base, you'd make the appropriate call (e.g. base 3 greens), and the military tower would give landing instructions and say "check wheels", to which you'd respond by pressing the beeper switch.

Later when I was flying the Iroquois, we used to think it was funny on occasion to say "base two skids", or "base, skids down and welded", and push the tone button on the UHF as if we had an undercarriage beeper.

[Centaurus]

During circuit traiining on Wirraways at Point Cook in the early 1950's, we were taught to momentarily throttle back to idle on the downwind leg and the undercarriage warning horn would sound quite loudly. Once we heard that sound indicating the undercarriage warning was operating correctly, we would apply power again and select undercarriage down. With several Wirraways in the circuit the sound to spectators on the ground would sound like 'blipping' of engines like the old WW1 biplanes.

[Aviation Photograph]

Danger Close Aviation Instagram Gear video

Originally Posted by Arm out the window

To digress a little further from the topic, as many will probably know, RAAF Macchis and other types had a beep transmission setup wired in to the undercarriage system. Turning base, you'd make the appropriate call (e.g. base 3 greens), and the military tower would give landing instructions and say "check wheels", to which you'd respond by pressing the beeper switch.

Later when I was flying the Iroquois, we used to think it was funny on occasion to say "base two skids", or "base, skids down and welded", and push the tone button on the UHF as if we had an undercarriage beeper.

The dudes at Danger Close Aviation on Instagram, have an awesome video, similar to what your talking about with the beeping button

[megan]

Off thread: We had a group of Chinese pilots visit our operation to gain experience in off shore operations for a month or so, they had a senior Chinese gentleman in charge, turned out he flew Migs in the Korean conflict so he and Lloyd compared log books to see if they shared the skies on the same day.

Lloyd had another claim to fame, he flew the first Mirage from France to Avalon - (in the back of a C-130).

[Partronkus]

Peter Clement’s wheeled up a Corsair at Temora then jumped straight into a mustang and kept flying for the days displays.
shocking airmanship for a so called professional.

then just recently led the tragic and avoidable formation jet fatal incident over port Philip bay, while not properly complying with a licence medical restriction?

where is the accountability and regulatory response to these issues from the regulator?

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by Partronkus

Peter Clement’s wheeled up a Corsair at Temora then jumped straight into a mustang and kept flying for the days displays.
shocking airmanship for a so called professional.

then just recently led the tragic and avoidable formation jet fatal incident over port Philip bay, while not properly complying with a licence medical restriction?

where is the accountability and regulatory response to these issues from the regulator?

Damn good question...

In my job, the merest suspicion of a safety breach and you're suspended (with pay) for the duration of the investigation. I know of a Driver who simply crossed the tracks without a safety vest to rectify an open bodyside door before a passenger fell out. He was sidelined for 7 weeks. Just for crossing the tracks without a safety vest...One would have to ask, given PB was flying the Spit as part of his employment, was there an AOD test conducted to prove he wasn't impaired? What investigation was undertaken to prove his competence to continue the flying display over the weekend?

Would anyone seriously think that if you were to land a Citation gear-up, your employer would just hand you the keys to another one of their fleet the following morning and say "Don't worry about yesterday, you're taking Mr & Mrs Kettle to Hamilton Island this afternoon!"

Or am I expecting too much...?

[onthetailtothemoon]

Way to kick a man while he’s down.

Everybody makes mistakes. I’m sure anyone would feel awful in a similar situation, and I think that alone is enough.

But condemning someone and calling for regulatory action against a person who arguably understands the airshow environment and their own personal minimums better than anyone in Australia is insane.

There’s no doubt he would’ve made a call if he were having a bad day. Good on him for getting back on the horse.

[spektrum]

Most people would have curled up in the foetal position and wept for days. Getting back in the saddle, kicking the next machine in the guts and getting on with the job is actually the sign of professionalism. Nice one Paul.

[junior.VH-LFA]

A lot of people who would never be asked to get near any of those aeroplanes are always very quick to pass judgement when something happens. Of course, they have never made any mistakes either.

[treadigraph]

Saw a poor quality photo yesterday which appeared to show the gear hanging partly down shortly before touch down - bit hard to be sure as the photo was very grainy and the radiator boats are behind and inboard of the wheel wells, so it was hard to tell exactly what was going on.

I've seen a Spitfire XIV displayed with one gear leg hanging partly down in front of the radiator and understand that sometimes a leg doesn't retract fully but can hang on the locks or some such thing - no idea if a hang up can occur when the gear is selected down?

Also heard that a P-40 had a landing incident at Scone on Sunday - pic seemed to show it undamaged and I imagine it could have been a groundloop. Also a Tiger Moth was dead sticked very nicely after the Gipsy threw in the sponge during a stall turn... presumably not intentional!

[sheppey]

Most people would have curled up in the foetal position and wept for days. Getting back in the saddle, kicking the next machine in the guts and getting on with the job is actually the sign of professionalism. Nice one Paul.

During the war years in the Royal Air Force it was common procedure that if a pilot pranged an aircraft such as an inadvertent wheels up landing, he would be given another aircraft straight away and told to do a circuit and landing . The theory being he would not have time to dwell on his accident. Maybe there is some truth to that theory