Icus times availability
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Hey there Yakka
Read the Regs
Not the note in your log book. Do you know CAR 5.40?
Take a good look a condition (d)
you must be co-pilot
Please tell me how you can be co-pilot of a 206???
This is one reg that everyone (including the lovely guys at CASA) thinks they know but have never actually read the REAL regs.
5.40 Pilot acting in command under supervision
(1) A person must not fly an aircraft as pilot acting in command undersupervision unless:
(a) the person holds:
(i) a commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
or
(i) a certificate of validation that has effect as if it were a
commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
and
(b) the person holds an aircraft endorsement that authorises him or her to fly the aircraft as pilot in command; and
(c) if the person proposes to carry out an activity for which a flight
crew rating is required—the person holds a flight crew rating, or
grade of flight crew rating, that permits him or her to carry out
that activity as pilot in command of the aircraft concerned; and
(d) the person is the co-pilot of the aircraft; and
(e) the operator of the aircraft permits the person to fly the aircraft as pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(f) the pilot in command of the aircraft is appointed for the purpose
by the operator of the aircraft
Read the Regs
Not the note in your log book. Do you know CAR 5.40?
Take a good look a condition (d)
you must be co-pilot
Please tell me how you can be co-pilot of a 206???
This is one reg that everyone (including the lovely guys at CASA) thinks they know but have never actually read the REAL regs.
5.40 Pilot acting in command under supervision
(1) A person must not fly an aircraft as pilot acting in command undersupervision unless:
(a) the person holds:
(i) a commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
or
(i) a certificate of validation that has effect as if it were a
commercial pilot licence or an air transport pilot licence;
and
(b) the person holds an aircraft endorsement that authorises him or her to fly the aircraft as pilot in command; and
(c) if the person proposes to carry out an activity for which a flight
crew rating is required—the person holds a flight crew rating, or
grade of flight crew rating, that permits him or her to carry out
that activity as pilot in command of the aircraft concerned; and
(d) the person is the co-pilot of the aircraft; and
(e) the operator of the aircraft permits the person to fly the aircraft as pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(f) the pilot in command of the aircraft is appointed for the purpose
by the operator of the aircraft
TurboOtter,
The regs also say "co-pilot means a pilot serving in any piloting capacity other than the PIC".
As long as the aircraft has fully functioning dual controls, any aircraft can be used to conduct ICUS as long as the other conditions that you listed are met.
I know of at least one company that operates under a contract using two crew in Barons and Chieftains, and one guy/ girl logs co-pilot (poor ******s
)
The regs also say "co-pilot means a pilot serving in any piloting capacity other than the PIC".
As long as the aircraft has fully functioning dual controls, any aircraft can be used to conduct ICUS as long as the other conditions that you listed are met.
I know of at least one company that operates under a contract using two crew in Barons and Chieftains, and one guy/ girl logs co-pilot (poor ******s
)
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Turbo,
When i said do you know what ICUS stands for, I should have said, "do you know what ICUS means ?"
No
well here it is
In Command Under Supervision (ICUS)
Includes all flight time when assigned as co-pilot acting in command under supervision as defined above:ICUS may be logged as follows:
a) in log books with single and multi-engine ICUS columns, the flight time is logged accordingly and is included in the Grand Total Hours;
b) if the log book does not have an ICUS column then ICUS may be logged in the Pilot in Command column as long as it is clearly identified as ICUS and the pilot in command is also identified;
c) alternatively, another unused column may be used to log ICUS.
If im wrong show me!
When i said do you know what ICUS stands for, I should have said, "do you know what ICUS means ?"
No
well here it is
In Command Under Supervision (ICUS)
Includes all flight time when assigned as co-pilot acting in command under supervision as defined above:ICUS may be logged as follows:
a) in log books with single and multi-engine ICUS columns, the flight time is logged accordingly and is included in the Grand Total Hours;
b) if the log book does not have an ICUS column then ICUS may be logged in the Pilot in Command column as long as it is clearly identified as ICUS and the pilot in command is also identified;
c) alternatively, another unused column may be used to log ICUS.
If im wrong show me!
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Have to agree with Turbo on all this.
You can't be a "co-pilot" on a PA31 or a C206 because there is no such endorsement.
However, you can get ICUS on either of these if, say, you have just joined the company and you are being route checked, so theoretically you can't be the sole capt, but under supervision of a company check capt.
You can't be a "co-pilot" on a PA31 or a C206 because there is no such endorsement.
However, you can get ICUS on either of these if, say, you have just joined the company and you are being route checked, so theoretically you can't be the sole capt, but under supervision of a company check capt.
Airframe - you just have to be endorsed. Just because there is no specific co-pilot endorsement for that type of AC does not mean that you cannot act as a co-pilot on that AC. The operator assigns you to act as co-pilot (usually when a customer requests two crew for example or RPT w/ no functioning autopilot). I have eighty or so hours of this myself in Light twins (none logged as ICUS though). BHP refer to it as a safety pilot I think.
Yeah sure, most people see it as bullsh|t time but if you are low time it helps to get proficient at radio, flight planing, trimsheets, briefs, walkarounds etc etc.
Yeah sure, most people see it as bullsh|t time but if you are low time it helps to get proficient at radio, flight planing, trimsheets, briefs, walkarounds etc etc.
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Hey Yakka,
Don't mean to be rudee but you keep quoting the pages out of the log book.
that's all great but READ the CAr's as I have quoted before.
It even stated what ICUS is (WOW!!!)
Then it states the terms of how ICUS can be conducted (now read this before even getting the log book out) and rememeber ALL of the terms have to be forefilled.
I have fought with several CASA people and Chief Pirates etc bout this and still no one can show me how it can be done on the type of aircraft you are talking about.
Everyone MUST remember that the CAR's and designed primarily for the big boys, not for us useless swine in G.A.
Keep up the good work, remember, read ALL the words.
AS to Airframe Driver,
I think you know what I am talking about, but as you said
"However, you can get ICUS on either of these if, say, you have just joined the company and you are being route checked, so theoretically you can't be the sole capt, but under supervision of a company check capt"
This is fine, but if you stand back and look at it, if you are in the left hand seat, YOU and only you are the pilot in command, to make the guys who insurancee the bucket of bolts you are flying happy, you need to have someone who they want to call in command.
At the beggining of ALL flights it MUST be estblished who is in command and that is what the log book should state. If you are not in command but in the left seat, then it is dual,full stop.
All of this is of course if the requirements of the CAR's cannot be met, if they can then start filling out the ICUS column and be a happy person
Have fun!!
Don't mean to be rudee but you keep quoting the pages out of the log book.
that's all great but READ the CAr's as I have quoted before.
It even stated what ICUS is (WOW!!!)
Then it states the terms of how ICUS can be conducted (now read this before even getting the log book out) and rememeber ALL of the terms have to be forefilled.
I have fought with several CASA people and Chief Pirates etc bout this and still no one can show me how it can be done on the type of aircraft you are talking about.
Everyone MUST remember that the CAR's and designed primarily for the big boys, not for us useless swine in G.A.
Keep up the good work, remember, read ALL the words.
AS to Airframe Driver,
I think you know what I am talking about, but as you said
"However, you can get ICUS on either of these if, say, you have just joined the company and you are being route checked, so theoretically you can't be the sole capt, but under supervision of a company check capt"
This is fine, but if you stand back and look at it, if you are in the left hand seat, YOU and only you are the pilot in command, to make the guys who insurancee the bucket of bolts you are flying happy, you need to have someone who they want to call in command.
At the beggining of ALL flights it MUST be estblished who is in command and that is what the log book should state. If you are not in command but in the left seat, then it is dual,full stop.
All of this is of course if the requirements of the CAR's cannot be met, if they can then start filling out the ICUS column and be a happy person
Have fun!!
