Virgin VS Jetstar ? FO offer

[skyhigh4]

Hi guys,
hoping to get some insights from both companies. Pros and cons from a couple guys flying the line.

This is aimed to help guys that are making the choice between them.


Cheers

[Tommy Bahama]

Pros you get to fly a jet.

Cons at both places you get treated like garbage and are expected to say "please sir/madam may I have some more".

Qantas is Qantas with its inherent problems but its a long way from the cesspit of either Virgin or Jetstar. I do acknowledge though that Jetstar is all that some can aspire to.

When It comes down to it, at the end of your career and you look back you want to be able to say "I put value how I allowed myself to be treated"

[cLeArIcE]

Many will argue the pros and cons of each and that's understandable. From MY perspective when looking at the current upgrade times in both companies and wide body flying available at JQ v having to fly a 737 for the rest of your life it would be a fairly easy decision for me.

[On Guard]

Depends on end goal. If it’s Qantas go to virgin. If you’re going to stay I’d suggest Jetstar for previous reasons in comments.

[chookcooker]

Lates offer from Va to pilots is below JQ pay so factor that in on top of no widebodies etc

[das Uber Soldat]

Originally Posted by Tommy Bahama

. I do acknowledge though that Jetstar is all that some can aspire to.

What kind of ****** comment is this? Surely a piss take.

[Goat Whisperer]

Factors one needs to consider:

Time to command (better at JQ)
Variety of roles (better at JQ)
Desired base (depends on your preference)
Salary (better at JQ, will stay that way under current VA offer)
Days off (better at VA, less so under current VA offer)
Bidding/roster satisfaction (dunno)
Flying A320s vs 737s (your opinion, I have mine)
There's currently not at lot of reasons to join VA. Hoping for everyone's sake that will change.

[717Atlantic]

In addition to the poster above, few other points to consider:

JQ does a bigger mix of day trips vs VA with more domestic overnights to my understanding. This means JQ is likely better if you live in base, but VA could be superior if you have a long drive to work.
​​​​
You don't know where you truly stand on VA's seniority list until 2026 when the last of the old crew can still come back.

Can anyone shed light on if the final goal is QF, which would be superior from this angle? Is the rate of internals moving across from JQ lower than those who get picked up from QLink; i.e. while JQ would give you a faster command would it slow you down if mainline was the goal?

[hawk_eye]

Originally Posted by Goat Whisperer

Factors one needs to consider:

Time to command (better at JQ)
Variety of roles (better at JQ)
Desired base (depends on your preference)
Salary (better at JQ, will stay that way under current VA offer)
Days off (better at VA, less so under current VA offer)
Bidding/roster satisfaction (dunno)
Flying A320s vs 737s (your opinion, I have mine)
There's currently not at lot of reasons to join VA. Hoping for everyone's sake that will change.

I think this post is spot on. I will add the following having been at VA for coming on 15 years.

- The time to command has to be a significant factor. It’s still close to 15 years in Virgin and that’s for junior bases like ADL and probably Sydney. If you want a command in Melbourne or Brisbane the wait now is going to be a very long time. There isn’t a particularly old demographic at Virgin - so there isn’t about to be a massive number of retirements in either of those bases that will reign in the wait times. All this whilst at JQ there are unfilled command spots across their network.

- Variety of roles is big issue as well. As someone in their early 40s, the prospect of another 20 years of the current 737 workload is pretty daunting. No longer having the ability to change up your flying (some may say progress your career) and move to a wide body is pretty disheartening. The ability to bid for the 787 at JQ, along with the fact they are getting the cabin refurb / installing crew rest and the likelihood that this means longer trips to the USA for example, should be pretty appealing to anyone trying to make a choice as to who to choose.

- You certainly get more base options at JQ. I’d think flying a NB jet out of Cairns would allow you to have a pretty decent lifestyle. Virgin have pretty much reneged on the possibility of opening up a Gold Coast base. There’s lots of platitudes (we are looking at it, the numbers don’t stack up right now but we constantly review them, etc etc) but don’t count on it happening.

- Money wise it’s hard to know where Virgin will end up. The guys that chase the cash can earn $230k as an FO right now. But that’s working a lot of your days off and working pretty damn hard. I can’t speak for JQ.

- 12 days off is a significant advantage of Virgin. Is this something you can count on for the rest of your career? The Company is pushing very hard to reduce these. Time will tell in negotiations whether they are successful.

- 737 / A320: as someone who has never flown an airbus but who has quite a few mates at JQ, I think it’s pretty clear that a big 4 sector day in an Airbus is less physically taxing than the same day in a 737. Also worth thinking about is just the variety of flying the 321NEOXLR may open up to those at JQ. Meanwhile it’s still undetermined when the Max10 will be certified (if ever?)

Ultimately in both companies you are going to be working pretty hard. Perhaps VA has slightly better lifestyle than JQ - but not by a huge amount, and it’s at the detriment of guaranteed take home pay.

Id say though long term, JQ offers you more variety in flying as they have NB and WB positions. With WB flying (especially long haul to say America) comes a fairly good lifestyle as well. If I had my time again, I wish I’d gone to JQ or applied to QF.

It’s a pretty sad state of affairs when two of the three major jet operators in the country are pretty underwhelming choices when it comes to a long term career.

[Captain Dart]

If you went to JQ you would not be working for an airline named after a person who’s never had sex.

[Big Silver Spoon]

Both are good training grounds to go elsewhere.

[LostontheLOC]

If you're looking at going to Qantas - Go Virgin.

If this is the last job you plan on having in Australia - Go Jetstar.

[galdian]

Whilst a broad statement for security JQ being QF will never go broke.

There's no reason - if you believe the chatter - that Bain couldn't crack the ****s tomorrow and shut the place down having moved enough assets/money around already to have made some dosh, selling any remaining assets could just be a nice bit of extra.

Never happen? Yeah probably not but.....

Cheers

[krismiler]

Would JQ staff travel be better with access to QF and ONEWORLD ?

[neville_nobody]

Originally Posted by galdian

Whilst a broad statement for security JQ being QF will never go broke.

Assuming QF aren’t forced to divest themselves of it on competition grounds. This idea has been thrown in the last 6 months and Alan Fels just recently has been pushing for more competitive behaviour in the airline space. All depends really on how much QF upset Canberra but then that’s what the Chairman’s lounge is for.

I would agree that if Jetstar remains in QF group it will always be there but it may not be allowed to remain in the group.

[Red69]

I know of a reasonable number of people either leaving or looking at leaving VA to go to JQ. I don’t know of anyone looking to leave JQ to join VA. This may help with your decision…

[galdian]

Originally Posted by Red69

I know of a reasonable number of people either leaving or looking at leaving VA to go to JQ. I don’t know of anyone looking to leave JQ to join VA. This may help with your decision…

Unless you have the guts (wisdom? stupidity?) to be a contrarian....

[Nine_Inch__Wings]

Originally Posted by Red69

I know of a reasonable number of people either leaving or looking at leaving VA to go to JQ. I don’t know of anyone looking to leave JQ to join VA. This may help with your decision…

this is actually an incredible point

With command times at JQ so quick, and flow into mainline meaning continuous gaps needing to be filled (not to mention the job security of being in the Qantas Group), the answer is easy

(that is unless the new 200k/300k for FO/CPTN somehow gets thru for Virgin)

[717Atlantic]

[QUOTE=Nine_Inch__Wings;11592743]With command times at JQ so quick, and flow into mainline meaning continuous gaps needing to be filled (not to mention the job security of being in the Qantas Group)

Is the flow from JQ to mainline purely seniority based, or is it more like QLink's system? Any insights on how many years out the list stretches?

[Global Xpress]

What's the latest on JQ Syd A320 DEC, seems they can't fill slots