Guide for a CPL and IR conversion from overseas
Thread Starter
Guide for a CPL and IR conversion from overseas
As per the title this is a guide for those who are wanting to venture down under and want to know the detials of converting your CPL and instrument rating over to CASA. For context I recently converted mine from an ICAO state outside the EU (not an EASA license).
Whilst the CASA website does tell you how to go about it, there are quite a few small details that don't make the process as simple as it would seem online so I'd like to help out others going through this as moving countries is already stressful enough.
No links are posted as I dont have enough posts to do that on this website however most are found through the CASA website. Feel free to add links in the future if you find them.
This guide also does not touch on visa requirements as I am an Aussie citizen and didnt need to worry about that.
Last thing before we get to it remember this is from my personal experience and yours may differ as you may be converting from a different place than from where I am with different experience etc, this is more an overall guide.
So to start head over to the CASA website and just take a look at the list of requirements to get it started.
As I said it gives you a good idea of how it should pan out overall, but theres a bit more to it than it states.
Pretty much all of the steps require you to be in the country to do so with very little prep outside Aus is required however this is at least what I recommend.
Gather all your documents (license, logbooks goverment ID) and make sure everything is updated and certified. Also get your logbook stamped and certified true times by your employer, flight school, club ect. CASA may also require permission from your licensing body to recieve your information. In a nutshell before going, notify and authorise release of your licensing information with whoever you need to as it will be slowed down quite a bit, should it need to go back and forth. Some countries dont require it, some do.
Once you arrive you can apply for an ARN which is basically a license number to get the whole thing started.
Follow the link and the process through as its pretty straight foward overall.
Once you have your ARN you can begin the rest of the setup process.
If your license does not state your english level, then you'll need to do an AELP. Its pretty much a converstation that determines your english speaking level.
I would also say that around now is a good time to get the medical booked as it will take a while to come through. For a CPL you'll be after a class 1 with the process being similar, but with a few more tests than other governing bodies. The medical process was a little strange for me the first time but heres essentially how it works. It can be a little confusing to get things going as theres a few systems so here is how I went about doing the medical.
To start I booked one in after looking at who could do them in my area. You're looking for whats called a DAME to start (Designated aviation medical examiner) so simply look up ones in your area and see who you'd like to do your medical with. Before your examination you'll need to head onto the myCASA and set yourself up, then go through the MRS (Medical records system) and fill it out accordingly. Once this is done and paid for you can go do your inital medical. You will also be required to do four additional tests. These are an ECG, Audiogram, blood test and an eye exam. Most places will do at least the first three however the eye exam will require a special optometrist.
Once all the tests are done its a waiting game.
At this point I would take a look at form 61-4A as that is what you will be submitting to CASA for your conversion. Now towards the end of the form, at section 19, you will see a checklist of what needs to be submitted. This is where it began to become a bit more complex for me as I had no idea what this was at the time but theres a checkbox for a certified copy of either and AVID or an ASIC. This is basically a security check. You're best of just getting an ASIC as you'll need it for controlled airports. Getting the ASIC (red) is pretty straight forward as it asks pretty standard security questions like criminal and address history, however you will require something called an "operational need". You get this from a school or employer who basically confirm that you actually need one. To get this I spoke to the flight school I planned on doing my converion with, and they were able to authorise it. You will need to provide details for them in the application itself. I did mine through a company called Vertias, which after filling out the application, required me to head to a post office with somone who could sumbit the ASIC application on staff. The card took 2 weeks to arrive.
While waiting for your ASIC to arrive, get copies of the required documents in the checklist on form 61-4A, and get them certified at a JP (justice of the peace). Do that with your ASIC once it arrives too.
I'd also suggest using this time to get a passport photo and do the same as you'll need to submit a photo to CASA using the 61-9PIC form (submit with your conversion form).
Once thats all sorted, submit the forms and all documents as well as pay the required fees and congratulations. You have started.
While waiting for a response get to studying. One thing thats pretty nice is that if you've spent some time on the CASA website, you'll have a really good idea of what exams and tests they'll get you to do. What you are waiting on is an letter that officially states the requirements.
Exam wise expect to do the CHUF and COSA (CPL), as well as the IREX. In terms of study the CHUF and IREX have plenty of things online talking about them so I wont spend any time detialing those. The COSA can be a bit tricky to find things on so do your research. Take a look at the permitted materials and study accordingly. If you have trouble with law related questions then bob taits CPL law should help fill that in (make sure its up to date).
Once you get your letter and are required to do the exams, you can make an account on ASPEQ and book them accordingly.
Good luck with the exams.
Now you will also have some flying requirements after the theory (as usual). CASA may add specific endorsements and ratings directly onto your licence. These will be displayed on your letter and just require you to "activate" them making them current (flight tests will take care of it). The letter may also just state the flight test as a requirements however just like many countries, you are required to be recommended and will most likely need to get up to scratch anyway as there are plenty of things that will be different.
Each flight test completion will require you to fill out form 61-4B as thats the second part form for the conversion. The examiner will need to fill their side out and this will need to be done for each flight test individually (ie a CPL and IR test will require one each). Expect to do both the CPL and the inital instrument rating flight test (not an IPC).
After CASA has recieved these forms they will issue your shiny new license with the ratings you have converted.
It's a pretty lenghty process and should things move at a relativley stable pace you're probably looking at around 3-6 months at least for full completion. The letter you get is only valid for a year so make sure you get it done in time or you'll need to restart the process, including rewriting exams.
Either way good luck to anyone who does it and feel free to reference this post should anyone as in the future.
Whilst the CASA website does tell you how to go about it, there are quite a few small details that don't make the process as simple as it would seem online so I'd like to help out others going through this as moving countries is already stressful enough.
No links are posted as I dont have enough posts to do that on this website however most are found through the CASA website. Feel free to add links in the future if you find them.
This guide also does not touch on visa requirements as I am an Aussie citizen and didnt need to worry about that.
Last thing before we get to it remember this is from my personal experience and yours may differ as you may be converting from a different place than from where I am with different experience etc, this is more an overall guide.
So to start head over to the CASA website and just take a look at the list of requirements to get it started.
As I said it gives you a good idea of how it should pan out overall, but theres a bit more to it than it states.
Pretty much all of the steps require you to be in the country to do so with very little prep outside Aus is required however this is at least what I recommend.
Gather all your documents (license, logbooks goverment ID) and make sure everything is updated and certified. Also get your logbook stamped and certified true times by your employer, flight school, club ect. CASA may also require permission from your licensing body to recieve your information. In a nutshell before going, notify and authorise release of your licensing information with whoever you need to as it will be slowed down quite a bit, should it need to go back and forth. Some countries dont require it, some do.
Once you arrive you can apply for an ARN which is basically a license number to get the whole thing started.
Follow the link and the process through as its pretty straight foward overall.
Once you have your ARN you can begin the rest of the setup process.
If your license does not state your english level, then you'll need to do an AELP. Its pretty much a converstation that determines your english speaking level.
I would also say that around now is a good time to get the medical booked as it will take a while to come through. For a CPL you'll be after a class 1 with the process being similar, but with a few more tests than other governing bodies. The medical process was a little strange for me the first time but heres essentially how it works. It can be a little confusing to get things going as theres a few systems so here is how I went about doing the medical.
To start I booked one in after looking at who could do them in my area. You're looking for whats called a DAME to start (Designated aviation medical examiner) so simply look up ones in your area and see who you'd like to do your medical with. Before your examination you'll need to head onto the myCASA and set yourself up, then go through the MRS (Medical records system) and fill it out accordingly. Once this is done and paid for you can go do your inital medical. You will also be required to do four additional tests. These are an ECG, Audiogram, blood test and an eye exam. Most places will do at least the first three however the eye exam will require a special optometrist.
Once all the tests are done its a waiting game.
At this point I would take a look at form 61-4A as that is what you will be submitting to CASA for your conversion. Now towards the end of the form, at section 19, you will see a checklist of what needs to be submitted. This is where it began to become a bit more complex for me as I had no idea what this was at the time but theres a checkbox for a certified copy of either and AVID or an ASIC. This is basically a security check. You're best of just getting an ASIC as you'll need it for controlled airports. Getting the ASIC (red) is pretty straight forward as it asks pretty standard security questions like criminal and address history, however you will require something called an "operational need". You get this from a school or employer who basically confirm that you actually need one. To get this I spoke to the flight school I planned on doing my converion with, and they were able to authorise it. You will need to provide details for them in the application itself. I did mine through a company called Vertias, which after filling out the application, required me to head to a post office with somone who could sumbit the ASIC application on staff. The card took 2 weeks to arrive.
While waiting for your ASIC to arrive, get copies of the required documents in the checklist on form 61-4A, and get them certified at a JP (justice of the peace). Do that with your ASIC once it arrives too.
I'd also suggest using this time to get a passport photo and do the same as you'll need to submit a photo to CASA using the 61-9PIC form (submit with your conversion form).
Once thats all sorted, submit the forms and all documents as well as pay the required fees and congratulations. You have started.
While waiting for a response get to studying. One thing thats pretty nice is that if you've spent some time on the CASA website, you'll have a really good idea of what exams and tests they'll get you to do. What you are waiting on is an letter that officially states the requirements.
Exam wise expect to do the CHUF and COSA (CPL), as well as the IREX. In terms of study the CHUF and IREX have plenty of things online talking about them so I wont spend any time detialing those. The COSA can be a bit tricky to find things on so do your research. Take a look at the permitted materials and study accordingly. If you have trouble with law related questions then bob taits CPL law should help fill that in (make sure its up to date).
Once you get your letter and are required to do the exams, you can make an account on ASPEQ and book them accordingly.
Good luck with the exams.
Now you will also have some flying requirements after the theory (as usual). CASA may add specific endorsements and ratings directly onto your licence. These will be displayed on your letter and just require you to "activate" them making them current (flight tests will take care of it). The letter may also just state the flight test as a requirements however just like many countries, you are required to be recommended and will most likely need to get up to scratch anyway as there are plenty of things that will be different.
Each flight test completion will require you to fill out form 61-4B as thats the second part form for the conversion. The examiner will need to fill their side out and this will need to be done for each flight test individually (ie a CPL and IR test will require one each). Expect to do both the CPL and the inital instrument rating flight test (not an IPC).
After CASA has recieved these forms they will issue your shiny new license with the ratings you have converted.
It's a pretty lenghty process and should things move at a relativley stable pace you're probably looking at around 3-6 months at least for full completion. The letter you get is only valid for a year so make sure you get it done in time or you'll need to restart the process, including rewriting exams.
Either way good luck to anyone who does it and feel free to reference this post should anyone as in the future.
Last edited by rightseat152; 12th Jun 2023 at 08:05.
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I am sure some pilots hoping to crack the Aussie job market will appreciate your post. It’s a sad reflection on our bureaucracy that jumping through all the CASA hoops could take up to six months, but having done many a battle with them to obtain various approvals, it doesn’t surprise me.
If you have a co-operative potential employer, it is worth looking at the Certificate of Validation process. Potentially it can get you flying legally in a month , but the employer does need to specify that it is to fulfil a temporary requirement only. It is usually restricted to a particular operator and aircraft type and is typically for special purposes eg fire suppression, introduction of a new type , survey etc. If an operator has a crewing crisis they could apply to bring pilots in via the C of V route, but you’d have to ask yourself would you really want to…
Holding a C of V does not preclude a pilot from doing a full licence conversion via the normal pathways while using the C of V.
Whichever process a pilot chooses to use to convert, it is essential to arrive in Australia with at least six months’ validity on the qualifications you are seeking to have recognised. CASA will not validate something that is not valid in the country of issue.
If you have a co-operative potential employer, it is worth looking at the Certificate of Validation process. Potentially it can get you flying legally in a month , but the employer does need to specify that it is to fulfil a temporary requirement only. It is usually restricted to a particular operator and aircraft type and is typically for special purposes eg fire suppression, introduction of a new type , survey etc. If an operator has a crewing crisis they could apply to bring pilots in via the C of V route, but you’d have to ask yourself would you really want to…
Holding a C of V does not preclude a pilot from doing a full licence conversion via the normal pathways while using the C of V.
Whichever process a pilot chooses to use to convert, it is essential to arrive in Australia with at least six months’ validity on the qualifications you are seeking to have recognised. CASA will not validate something that is not valid in the country of issue.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 14th Jun 2023 at 21:43. Reason: afterthought about validity
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Hello,
i'd like to know if someone knows that i can do an IR ME in a foreign country knowing that i have a french CPL in a modular formation?
Btw does someone has new feedback on this aviation school Cavok in hungarie
thanks in advance
i'd like to know if someone knows that i can do an IR ME in a foreign country knowing that i have a french CPL in a modular formation?
Btw does someone has new feedback on this aviation school Cavok in hungarie
thanks in advance
Thread Starter
If you're talking about getting an instrument rating in Australia then you'll need a CASA licence to attach it to meaning if you didnt hold one you'd need to convert first. Remember its a rating not a licence so think of it more like additional priveleges on top of your CPL.
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Thank you for your feedback rightseat152 . I've started the process and I'm about to book the exams now.
I have a question regarding the permitted material for the COSA exam. It's quite a long list and Aspeq told me that it's up to me if I want to bring them with me and which ones.
Did you find that you need all of those? In CASA website is mentioned that the exam will test the knowledge of Part61 MOS schedule 3, but from me practicing with questions I've seen that there are questions from Part 91, 135 , AIP etc.
I have a question regarding the permitted material for the COSA exam. It's quite a long list and Aspeq told me that it's up to me if I want to bring them with me and which ones.
Did you find that you need all of those? In CASA website is mentioned that the exam will test the knowledge of Part61 MOS schedule 3, but from me practicing with questions I've seen that there are questions from Part 91, 135 , AIP etc.
Thread Starter
Thank you for your feedback rightseat152 . I've started the process and I'm about to book the exams now.
I have a question regarding the permitted material for the COSA exam. It's quite a long list and Aspeq told me that it's up to me if I want to bring them with me and which ones.
Did you find that you need all of those? In CASA website is mentioned that the exam will test the knowledge of Part61 MOS schedule 3, but from me practicing with questions I've seen that there are questions from Part 91, 135 , AIP etc.
I have a question regarding the permitted material for the COSA exam. It's quite a long list and Aspeq told me that it's up to me if I want to bring them with me and which ones.
Did you find that you need all of those? In CASA website is mentioned that the exam will test the knowledge of Part61 MOS schedule 3, but from me practicing with questions I've seen that there are questions from Part 91, 135 , AIP etc.
Thread Starter
I did the conversion with flight standards. They have a few bases around however there are quite a few schools who can help you out should you shop around.
Your overseas licence confirms your operational need.
Thread Starter
You're probably right that it confirms it however when I applied, I was required to provide evidence either through employment or a flight school and could not declare on my own just using my overseas license.
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That's because some of the issuing bodies are more geared towards MSICs and don't understand how it works. I'm an ASIC agent and a pilot's licence, wherever it is from, will always supply the operational need. The letter from flying school is only for students CURRENTLY undergoing training, not planning to; who don't have a licence yet and need an ASIC to apply for their licence, or are training at a security controlled aerodrome; the employment bit is for people who have an operational need to go airside but aren't pilots eg ground crew, marshallers, people mowing the grass and all the many others who work airside but aren't pilots.
Another tip as I am doing an overseas CPL conversion right now is to make sure you get the verifications done early and keep chasing them up. eg CASA: "We haven't heard back from the German authority yet". German authority "We haven't had a request from CASA yet" CASA had sent the request to the wrong email address....
Waiting for 61-4A to get ticked off by CASA so the pilot could book his two exams has taken WEEKS.
It used to be a case of go to the local office and all this would be done in a few minutes. Since it went to Canberra it has become like pulling teeth.
Another tip as I am doing an overseas CPL conversion right now is to make sure you get the verifications done early and keep chasing them up. eg CASA: "We haven't heard back from the German authority yet". German authority "We haven't had a request from CASA yet" CASA had sent the request to the wrong email address....
Waiting for 61-4A to get ticked off by CASA so the pilot could book his two exams has taken WEEKS.
It used to be a case of go to the local office and all this would be done in a few minutes. Since it went to Canberra it has become like pulling teeth.
Thread Starter
Yeah fair enough if that works. Pretty good advice about getting it in early. I was fortunate that the country I was from didnt require pre authorisation so Im not sure how long that is usually supposed to take. For the 61-4A for me it took just under 2 months to get a response (however it was over the Christmas period).
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Hey guys,
Has anyone had any experience with converting EASA qualifications to CASA? I hold a CASA CPL already, but have since moved overseas and I will shortly complete an EASA MEIR and Night VFR rating, and would be interested in possibly having those recognized on my Australian licence. I am aware that the CASA website says they assess EASA qualifications on a case by case basis, but was wondering if anyone had been through the process and could hint whether the recognition process would involve just doing the IREX and then a flight test for each rating, or whether its likely they would expect some amount of training hours before being allowed to do the flight test?
Thanks in advance for any info!
Has anyone had any experience with converting EASA qualifications to CASA? I hold a CASA CPL already, but have since moved overseas and I will shortly complete an EASA MEIR and Night VFR rating, and would be interested in possibly having those recognized on my Australian licence. I am aware that the CASA website says they assess EASA qualifications on a case by case basis, but was wondering if anyone had been through the process and could hint whether the recognition process would involve just doing the IREX and then a flight test for each rating, or whether its likely they would expect some amount of training hours before being allowed to do the flight test?
Thanks in advance for any info!
Hey guys,
Has anyone had any experience with converting EASA qualifications to CASA? I hold a CASA CPL already, but have since moved overseas and I will shortly complete an EASA MEIR and Night VFR rating, and would be interested in possibly having those recognized on my Australian licence. I am aware that the CASA website says they assess EASA qualifications on a case by case basis, but was wondering if anyone had been through the process and could hint whether the recognition process would involve just doing the IREX and then a flight test for each rating, or whether its likely they would expect some amount of training hours before being allowed to do the flight test?
Thanks in advance for any info!
Has anyone had any experience with converting EASA qualifications to CASA? I hold a CASA CPL already, but have since moved overseas and I will shortly complete an EASA MEIR and Night VFR rating, and would be interested in possibly having those recognized on my Australian licence. I am aware that the CASA website says they assess EASA qualifications on a case by case basis, but was wondering if anyone had been through the process and could hint whether the recognition process would involve just doing the IREX and then a flight test for each rating, or whether its likely they would expect some amount of training hours before being allowed to do the flight test?
Thanks in advance for any info!
