AirMed PA-31 VH-HJE down south of Archerfield

[compressor stall]

Originally Posted by megan

CS, many thanks for the insight, had always been lead to believe the B200 always had the accountability performance wise, my only FW experience has been 500 hours single engine back in the 60's. Despite the B200/PC-12 performance elements you point out, I as a possible patient would prefer to see a B200 turn up on a dark stormy night.

You are not alone. Beech (and others) have done some great marketing with the B200 spruiking FAR 25 compliance and the like. But that's just the modified bits (like an oxygen system). Or Raisbeck come to the table with selected bits of the performance envelope. Smoke and mirrors.

There is a disconnect between the pseudo V1 speed and the climb out speed, at which you are at the back to the drag curve and you need many obstacle free miles to make that work. Westgate bridge becomes an issue off 17 I think. Discussed in some detail in the ZCR accident thread.

There is a STC on offer for the B200 to be full FAR 25 performance. But you need a hell of a lot of runway to make that work. In fact IIRC you can count the number of airports that will allow that in Vic with any useful load on one hand.

My manuals are dusty, but I found this on one of my posts from 20 years ago ...

Beechcraft offer the computations and charts for a balanced field length. They state that it is possible to reduce weight to "obtain the performance specifications of FAR 25 during the critical takeoff and initial climb segments. ...full compliance with other regulations applicable to FAR25 is not implied." It is quite an involved process and a lot of iterative calculations need to be performed.
(the example they use is on a hot day at 5000' field, 2+kms of rwy and 10 kts headwind, you need to limit your weight by 2000 lbs below MTOW!)

B350 on the other hand.....

[Magnetomick]

Well she did Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. She called it in (not heard on LiveATC) and Centre replied if she would make the field RSCU500 airborne at same time and advised they’d go have a look.From 3:15
https://archive.liveatc.net/ybcg/YBC...2023-2000Z.mp3

[Ixixly]

Originally Posted by Magnetomick

Well she did Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. She called it in (not heard on LiveATC) and Centre replied if she would make the field RSCU500 airborne at same time and advised they’d go have a look.From 3:15
https://archive.liveatc.net/ybcg/YBC...2023-2000Z.mp3

Had the timestamps in but something weird about it where you track back and forth and it gets out of sync making it too hard, the whole thing seems to happen within about 10-15mins so big kudos to the Rescue 500 crew for getting there so quickly. Top of Descent sounded normal (have to go to the recording before the one linked above), hear a little from HJE at this point but then nothing else from their side, next call is Centre acknowledge them visual at 3,300ft and to maintain and await visual clearance but on FlightRadar24 you can see them continuing descent, it was also a couple of minutes prior to this that you see the GS reduce quite a bit so I'm guessing it's somewhere around here the problem starts. We hear a call from Centre asking them to advise the nature of the issue when able and if they require any services (Around 1955UTC) but I don't think they had a chance as there was no acknowledgement of issues from Centre only a couple of calls about clearances Then we get the below which I transcribed as best I could, wasn't going for full accuracy, started putting in timestamps for the relevant parts, as you can see it went from "Call us on the ground" to "Can you make the aerodrome" within about a min so guessing things from bad to worse pretty quickly for HJE.

3:26 - Centre: HJE, still nothing observed, aircraft just broadcast lining up 28, switch to the CTAF, call again on the ground to cancel SAR, or if you need anything
4:34 - Centre: HJE, copied, do you think you'll be able to make the aerodrome
4:43 - Centre: HJE, roger, there's no observed traffic
4:53 - RSCU500: Centre, Rescue 500
4:54 - Centre: Rescue 500, Centre
4:55 - RSCU500: We just spun up at Archerfield, we'll go look for HJE, (...) transponder code
5:06 - Centre: Yeah, Currently 5.5nm to the south, code 1537 900 feet, currently pointing to the east
5:13 - RSCU500: Yeah I got her on OzRunways
RSCU500: (Short transmission, couldn't make it out, maybe QNH?)
Centre: Rescue 500, code for you 6023
RSCU500: 6023, Rescue 500
Centre: And HJE you got the Mount Lindsay Highway in sight running North South
Centre: Rescue 500, I have a lat long for where we lost HJE from radar if that works for you
RSCU500: Yeah, send it, Rescue 500
Centre: Yeah just south of the Logan Motorway, lat long 273965 S 1530110E
RSCU500: Yeah, copy, Rescue 500
Centre: HJE, Centre
RSCU500: Yeah Centre, Rescue 500 we're over the area now ready to start up
Centre: Rescue 500, sorry, say again
RSCU500: We're now over the lat and long we're going to commence (hard to hear)
Centre: Rescue 500, maybe slight more west of the lat long
RSCU500: Rescue 500 Copy
RSCU500: Centre, Rescue 500, we got the aircraft visual and are going to land at our current location, (something about helping services?)
Centre: Rescue 500 just report on the ground
RSCU500: Wilco

Figured others would be curious about the radio calls, but unfortunately very little from HJEs side.

[Bosi72]

The last audible transmissions from HJE were around 17min and 23:30min.
https://archive.liveatc.net/ybcg/YBC...2023-1930Z.mp3

[pithblot]

Ixixly

Figured others would be curious about the radio calls,

Yes, thanks for going to the trouble.

​​​​​​​pithblot

[lucille]

Is this the mother of all thread drifts or not?

Thread starts off with the news of a Navajo executing a mainly successful forced landing for reason or reasons unknown.

Then degenerates into SE vs ME then turbine SE vs piston ME then PC-12 vs B-200 and then jet aircraft. It’s been a great read even if it had nothing to do with a 50 year old piston twin which executed a forced landing.

But, I did learn something from all this… that the claims of FAR25 compliance of the Kingair was on dodgy grounds… who knew?

Hopefully, the interim ATSB report will be out sooner rather than later. Here’s my guess.. a fuel issue. Lack of, or in the wrong tanks.

As for the 200 pax single engine jet? I’ll bet LCCs are pressing for it and it will be single pilot to boot. Never say never in the race to the bottom!

[megan]

it will be single pilot to boot

You sure? I thought the pressure was for no pilots, troublesome lot, eg arguing about public holidays. (Thread drift continuing)