VFR into IMC. What did you do?
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VFR into IMC. What did you do?
Sometimes people talking to each other about experiences in this industry can prove very helpful to others. The title is obviously a topical discussion again with another accident this week. I know CASA release videos and talk about how important this topic is, but it does not appear the dial is moving.
I would like to hear some stories from anyone who has been caught out, or nearly caught out, and what did you do? How did that change you as a pilot?
I will start. 25 years ago, first charter job, 300 hours. Empty Charter run from Cairns to Karumba. Approaching Dimbulah, cloud was 4000. Terrain below is 2000. The continue or not continue moment came. Decided to continue, I mean it’s only 4000 right? Cloud base was reducing, and my exit path was now gone. Ended up flying along at 500-1000 AGL ducking and weaving between the terrain, and those who know the South West of Cairns will know the terrain I refer to. My mindset shifted to forced landings and how to land in such terrain. The cloud image ahead, and around me will stay with me forever. The tentacle like cloud dropping from the overcast base, dark, resembled the entry to hell, will never forget.
I would like to hear some stories from anyone who has been caught out, or nearly caught out, and what did you do? How did that change you as a pilot?
I will start. 25 years ago, first charter job, 300 hours. Empty Charter run from Cairns to Karumba. Approaching Dimbulah, cloud was 4000. Terrain below is 2000. The continue or not continue moment came. Decided to continue, I mean it’s only 4000 right? Cloud base was reducing, and my exit path was now gone. Ended up flying along at 500-1000 AGL ducking and weaving between the terrain, and those who know the South West of Cairns will know the terrain I refer to. My mindset shifted to forced landings and how to land in such terrain. The cloud image ahead, and around me will stay with me forever. The tentacle like cloud dropping from the overcast base, dark, resembled the entry to hell, will never forget.
Last edited by PoppaJo; 4th Apr 2023 at 07:03.
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Good thread.
All CASA and the experts will say is don’t do it. which is easy to do when your sitting on a nicely superannuated salary in a comfy office chair.
Im also the first to say don’t do it. But at age 20-25 stupidity sometimes takes over. Not everyone is a saint. We’ve all done dumb ****. The question is how to survive the brain fart. And better still, having survived it… never ever repeat it again.
Best way is to talk to your more experienced peers who have local knowledge and techniques to help you formulate an emergency stay alive plan which is appropriate to your locale.
One thing I will say, never be afraid to just announce your intentions to ATC and climb into controlled airspace if it means giving you terrain clearance. Having a licence suspended and a slap on the wrists by CASA is way preferable to ending up in a smoking hole.
All CASA and the experts will say is don’t do it. which is easy to do when your sitting on a nicely superannuated salary in a comfy office chair.
Im also the first to say don’t do it. But at age 20-25 stupidity sometimes takes over. Not everyone is a saint. We’ve all done dumb ****. The question is how to survive the brain fart. And better still, having survived it… never ever repeat it again.
Best way is to talk to your more experienced peers who have local knowledge and techniques to help you formulate an emergency stay alive plan which is appropriate to your locale.
One thing I will say, never be afraid to just announce your intentions to ATC and climb into controlled airspace if it means giving you terrain clearance. Having a licence suspended and a slap on the wrists by CASA is way preferable to ending up in a smoking hole.
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Was flying to a small grass strip on a small island, elevation around zero. When nearing, at around 4000', solid local cloud cover, and decided to descend into it. Still no visibility at 1500', so full power and climbed up and out of it. Circled and 15 mins later it was gone and could land. Still scary, will never do that again. I am somehow gifted with being able to fly in IMC, perhaps due to too much toying with flight simulator. My last bi-annual check-ride involved over an hour flying in clouds and IFR approaches, would recommend that to everyone, may save your a$$ one day.
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Great thread.
19, first job, no CP supervision, 300 odd hours, remote NT.
Knew the area pretty well as had done the ‘dry’, scud running into a strip I’d been into many times over the one little bit of high ground. Yeah I’ll fit through that gap, yeah nah. Whoops into the white, no idea, basic instruments, managed to keep wings level and slowly descend not wanting to go up. Popped out and there wasn’t a lot of room between me and the trees. Was it smart? No! Was I lucky, yes! Stupid, probably. Did I learn, yes but was very very lucky.
19, first job, no CP supervision, 300 odd hours, remote NT.
Knew the area pretty well as had done the ‘dry’, scud running into a strip I’d been into many times over the one little bit of high ground. Yeah I’ll fit through that gap, yeah nah. Whoops into the white, no idea, basic instruments, managed to keep wings level and slowly descend not wanting to go up. Popped out and there wasn’t a lot of room between me and the trees. Was it smart? No! Was I lucky, yes! Stupid, probably. Did I learn, yes but was very very lucky.
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Flying back into the Sydney basin from the north.
Tried 3 different ways culminating in ending up at 150’ agl around bowral in a steep low level u turn. I still shudder at the memory. I could have easily climbed up into the the class C.
Left plane at Goulburn.
Booked IREX the next day.
Started my instrument rating a week later.
Tried 3 different ways culminating in ending up at 150’ agl around bowral in a steep low level u turn. I still shudder at the memory. I could have easily climbed up into the the class C.
Left plane at Goulburn.
Booked IREX the next day.
Started my instrument rating a week later.
On my qualifying cross country in the UK, years ago; flying solo in a PA28, navigating towards my second planned landing. VFR and all going well but then flew over a layer of cloud.
Hmmm....... I am still in clear air with good visibility, but no longer in sight of the ground. Instructor never mentioned about this.......What to do?
Well, I do know quite accurately where I am having tracked my progress over various motorways and road junctions, and am under radar service, so although technically I should turn 180° and fly back into clear conditions, I know that I am safe from terrain, so I elect to continue and hope the cloud will clear enough at my descent point.
It did, but that could have ended very differently.
PS, I was not concerned about the absence of a clear, level horizon, because even before taking my instrument rating(s), I always flew by reference to the instruments - personally finding the visual method a bit inaccurate.
Hmmm....... I am still in clear air with good visibility, but no longer in sight of the ground. Instructor never mentioned about this.......What to do?
Well, I do know quite accurately where I am having tracked my progress over various motorways and road junctions, and am under radar service, so although technically I should turn 180° and fly back into clear conditions, I know that I am safe from terrain, so I elect to continue and hope the cloud will clear enough at my descent point.
It did, but that could have ended very differently.
PS, I was not concerned about the absence of a clear, level horizon, because even before taking my instrument rating(s), I always flew by reference to the instruments - personally finding the visual method a bit inaccurate.
Last edited by Uplinker; 4th Apr 2023 at 09:32.
South coast letdown
Flying with a pilot who had a lifetime of flying but not IFR qualified. Flying along the coast towards Merimbula in a C172 Hawk XP, ended up above solid stratus. We knew we were over the ocean about 2 mile from shore, air was smooth. Pilot set up instrument fixation about 500' above the clouds and set a 500 fpm descent and about a half rate turn. It was relatively easy to maintain aircraft attitude as we descended through the soup, there were no surprises so g force was normal all the way, in the end the cloud was about 1000' thick and we came into clear air at around 2000'. I don't know if my pilot had previous experience descending through cloud but I felt confident in the approach and technique through the entire manoeuvre.
When the cloud base is getting lower but you want to press on, NEVER stop looking over your shoulder to be sure you have a back door. Also make sure you can make level turns. I have also found that slow speed cruise, like 70KIAS in a C172, helps coz your turn radius is smaller and you have a bit more time.
Best you don't do it but.......
Best you don't do it but.......
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Gliding in the UK i deliberately climbed into a decent Cu with only a Turn and slip compass and parachute but no AH. Radioed my intention then kept a rate 1 thermal turn going, and when i got sufficient altitude went on compass heading and popped out of side of the cloud. I also had one unintensional cloud entry when a lenticular in strong winds built up around me in the Grampians. But dived down out of it. Nb glider cloud flying is not legal in oz but is in uk. I had no instrument training when gliding but made sure to do the MECIR in oz. But after gliding i did a uk ppl and due the poor weather did many imc flights in training.
Flying a LongRanger on bushfire work in the Blue Mountains, west of Sydney, early 90s. Massive smoke coverage, minimal vis. I was asked to move from the area near Katoomba to a place about 10nm north. The only way to get there was to fly along the west-facing cliff face at maybe 2500' amsl in the smoke, (couldn't see the top) near enough to stay visual with the cliff, far enough not to bump the rotor into anything. Was puttering along at about 40kt and making progress, when the front window is full of a Sea King coming the opposite way, doing the same as me.
Couldn't turn right (cliff and Sea King) so a snappy left turn into the smoke, solid IMC. I'm at 2500' and the tops are between 3000 and 4000'. Onto the clocks, point west to get away from the cliff, get to 60kt IFR climb speed and pull like crazy. Still in the smoke as I passed 4000', finally popped out at 6000'. Heart rate calms down, look for the cliffs again, and find my way to the location, this time clear of smoke.
Fortunately, the chopper was equipped for NVFR, and I had IFR experience from air force days, though my IR had expired 8 years before. The training was still in the skull, though.
Couldn't turn right (cliff and Sea King) so a snappy left turn into the smoke, solid IMC. I'm at 2500' and the tops are between 3000 and 4000'. Onto the clocks, point west to get away from the cliff, get to 60kt IFR climb speed and pull like crazy. Still in the smoke as I passed 4000', finally popped out at 6000'. Heart rate calms down, look for the cliffs again, and find my way to the location, this time clear of smoke.
Fortunately, the chopper was equipped for NVFR, and I had IFR experience from air force days, though my IR had expired 8 years before. The training was still in the skull, though.
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