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CASA - Is this the beginning of the end?

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CASA - Is this the beginning of the end?

Old 15th Feb 2023, 11:31
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CASA - Is this the beginning of the end?

I'll just leave this here - Share it around

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Old 15th Feb 2023, 12:21
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I think CASA come off pretty well in this video. Why would CASA disagree with a urologist? Because the flight risk is different (and a much tougher requirement) that the Urologist is used to dealing with.
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 13:06
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Started off well………until the good Senator went total antivax…

‘Then CASA puts their foot in it ; “our interest is ONLY aviation safety…..” You could have fooled me sunshine…..

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Old 15th Feb 2023, 20:53
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She is saying that only 100 medicals out of 25,000 a year are refused

Iím going to assume that old-mate who has a pacemaker who canít fly on his own who is given a medical but with a safety pilot clause, is not included in the 100.
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 20:59
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Originally Posted by Checkboard
I think CASA come off pretty well in this video. Why would CASA disagree with a urologist? Because the flight risk is different (and a much tougher requirement) that the Urologist is used to dealing with.
Ah, the good olí mystique of aviation. Aviation is so mysterious and scary that you donít even need to have any medical qualifications, much less specialist qualifications, to spin risks into disaster.

Because any idiot with access to the internet can do this job, could someone ascertain for me the probabilities of a residual, tiny kidney stone causing sudden and debilitating symptoms such that a pilot could not continue to perform duties?

Someone will usually pipe up and say: No matter how remote the probabilities, itís a risk to the safety of air navigation and, therefore, need not and should not be taken! Again, any idiot can do that. Even me.

Could someone now ascertain for me the probabilities of an average pilot having kidney stones of which the pilot is not aware? What if the answer to this question is a number bigger than the answer to the first question?

Could someone also ascertain for me the number of pilots who know they have kidney stones of the kind referred to in the hearing, but who donít hold - because they donít need to hold - a medical certificate issued by CASA? Remember: Passengers on RPT jets share the skies with aircraft whose pilots donít hold medical certificates. Or is it that the sudden incapacitation of those pilots presents absolutely zero risk to other aircraft? Absolutely zero? If itís not zero, how can it be consistent to allow that to happen? No matter how remote the probabilities, itís a risk to the safety of air navigation and, therefore, need not and should not be taken!

(Weíll leave aside the medical certificate holding pilots who have not told CASA about some condition because, according to CASA, those pilots donít exist. According to CASA, there is no perverse incentive to withhold information from CASA because the prospect of having oneís medical certificate suspended or refused or made subject to costly and potentially risky conditions which qualified professionals consider Ďover-killí is, apparently, of absolutely no concern to certificate holders. No concern whatsoever. They are lined up waiting for the next bus under which they can throw themselves.)

Finally, could someone ascertain what the ATSBís data shows is the most likely cause of sudden, debilitating symptoms resulting in the pilots of commercial aircraft being unable to continue duties in flight? Real pilots being really debilitated and unable to continue duties in the real world. Once thatís been ascertained, could someone further ascertain what CASA has done to prevent pilots from being exposed to what causes those symptoms?

Spinning a medical Ďconditioní into an aviation disaster is easy. Any idiot with access to the internet can find Ďevidenceí to Ďproveí it Ďcouldí happen. The substantial risk to aviation safety arises from over-reactions to marshmallow sized risks while doing nothing effective to mitigate the 88mm Howitzer sized risks. Pilots are very easy targets. Dealing with the big risks is hard.
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 21:42
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Lots of questions taken on notice.
Might be the end of CASA one of these years, it must be time for a change of name. Maybe going back to Department of Civil Aviation? They'll need more staff naturally plus a hoard of people to rewrite all the regs. I liked the old sign where there were arrows pointing all different directions, some wag printed T shirts with "Don't follow us we're lost". I think it might have been the Department of Aviation.
An appropriate acronym DOA
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 23:17
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Squawk, that would be my guess because their medical has not been refused. It has been granted with a restriction.

What does refused mean anyway? Does it mean suspended, cancelled or both?
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 23:33
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That senator is bonkers and it is a concern that he related two completly isolated subjects are being related to each other. The change of Cardiac Risk Assesement has nothing to do with COVID vaccines??
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Old 15th Feb 2023, 23:34
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She is saying that only 100 medicals out of 25,000 a year are refused
Only 100!

That's 100 pilot's who have lost their ability to follow their passion, and in a lot of cases, their livelihood.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 01:23
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
That senator is bonkers and it is a concern that he related two completly isolated subjects are being related to each other. The change of Cardiac Risk Assesement has nothing to do with COVID vaccines??
Heís suggesting that the cardiac conditions can be linked to the Covid vaccine.

CASA suggested that cardiac conditions can be attributed to Covid.

What they donít say, is of those having had Covid and suffer a condition, how many actually had the vaccine.

Such a complex discussion to be had around statistics and hard to cover off in a senate discussion.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 03:06
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
Heís suggesting that the cardiac conditions can be linked to the Covid vaccine.

CASA suggested that cardiac conditions can be attributed to Covid.

What they donít say, is of those having had Covid and suffer a condition, how many actually had the vaccine.

Such a complex discussion to be had around statistics and hard to cover off in a senate discussion.
I think you will find the stats are quite clear, the risk of cardiac issues after Covid is much higher than the risk of cardiac issues after the vaccine. I was referring more to the fact this dip**** was trying to infer that the vaccine has caused so many cardiac issues in pilots they have had to loosen their criteria around heart issues which is demonstrably false.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 04:50
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Unfortunately for Oz Aviation over the decades…CAsA had a beginning but it has no end.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 11:04
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It’s not the end of CASA. it’s just a senator, well known as an anti-science nut-bag, abusing the proper role of the committee system to ride a few of his personal hobbyhorses. He’s a disgrace to parliament, and that’s a pretty high bar to get over.

Last edited by JustinHeywood; 16th Feb 2023 at 11:24.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 12:25
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You guys are funny, he's an elected senator, he represents citizens, just like Lidia Thorpe does. He has 'personal hobbyhorses' just like Lidia Thorpe?

Disgrace to parliament, another for you. Did you see the fellow who quoted statistics on the NBA v NFL? But it turned out it was Congress, you're judging politician v politician? Some are better than others are they? Newsflash, they're all excrement, and they're probably similar to the thugs in avmed. As a pilot on medical audit, who's career depends on a yearly signoff from unqualified d!ckheads over ruling a cardiologist, I'm glad there are 'nut-bags' like him sticking it up CAsA.

And you idiots continually quoting 'the science' who have no ******* concept of science, mindless group think fools.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 21:05
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Originally Posted by tossbag
You guys are funny, he's an elected senator, he represents citizens, just like Lidia Thorpe does. He has 'personal hobbyhorses' just like Lidia Thorpe?

Disgrace to parliament, another for you. Did you see the fellow who quoted statistics on the NBA v NFL? But it turned out it was Congress, you're judging politician v politician? Some are better than others are they? Newsflash, they're all excrement, and they're probably similar to the thugs in avmed. As a pilot on medical audit, who's career depends on a yearly signoff from unqualified d!ckheads over ruling a cardiologist, I'm glad there are 'nut-bags' like him sticking it up CAsA.

And you idiots continually quoting 'the science' who have no ******* concept of science, mindless group think fools.

slow clap for this valuable contribution :-)
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 22:07
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The short answer to the OP's question is: No.

There's nothing new about bizarre and mind-boggling interactions between CASA and parliamentarians.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 22:30
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Originally Posted by tossbag

And you idiots continually quoting 'the science' who have no ******* concept of science, mindless group think fools.
Youíre right toss, Iím no scientist (but I do have a science degree).
I do know that you donít cherry pick Ďthe scienceí to match your ideology, as the good senator has a habit of doing.

If youíre not an expert in a field, you go with whatever the consensus is. If you think you know better than the majority of experts, youíre just an an angry, arrogant idiot.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 22:32
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If you think you know better than the majority of experts, you’re just an an angry, arrogant idiot.
Avmed these days takes the view that they know better than the majority of experts...
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 00:32
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It’s not the end of CASA
Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning - Winston Churchill
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 03:44
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100 out of 25,000?

1. we have 25,000 pilots? I guess the number must include ATC as well?

2. I must come across a lot of pilots as I personally know of 2 of these hundred who have had it happen in the last year, which seems statistically unusual given only 0.004% get rejected. I would advise you stay away from me. I am bad luck.

3. If the hazard is so significant (for say a PPL) their driver's licence should also be pulled surely? If there is a serious risk that someone becomes incapacitated whilst driving that is a significant danger to the public as well.

4. The major cause (by far), of medical incapacitation of pilots in flight in Australia is... food poisoning and lasers. CASA's AVMEd section would be doing far more for aviation safety by testing airport cafeterias perhaps? And supplying us with mirrored Raybans.

From ATSB (https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2015/ar-2015-096)
In the past 5 years, there have been 23 pilot incapacitation occurrences reported per year on average. Nearly 75 per cent of the incapacitation occurrences happened in high capacity air transport operations (about 1 in every 34,000 flights), with the main cause being gastrointestinal illness, followed by laser strikes.
My medical was suspended a few years ago, meaning I couldn't work. They then gave me the ability to fly multi-crew which was next to useless as I do not do multicrew flying. They said I had a condition that made me a hazard to air navigation despite the specialist saying I was fine to return to flying. CASA said they would review the suspenson every 12 months but could give me no timeframe or criteria they would use to re-assess it and no guarantee it would be re-issued. I was devasted. I believed my career was over. Fortunately I came across a DAME (by chance who was at my local GP's and who heard about my situation) who took up my cause.

After several specialists reports and multiple tests and correspondence CASA decided I was actually fine and re-issued my medical with no conditions. It took 2 specialist reports and thousands in tests to convince them I had suffered an infection, not a brain injury. 6 months no wages.
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