Anyone used the AvTraffic app to provide a traffic feed for OzRunways?

[mikewil]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone is familiar with or uses AvTraffic to provide a traffic overlay in OzRunways?

I have found it works seamlessly to provide 'most' ADSB traffic to OzRunways for those of us who can't justify a separate ADSB receiver.

It appears to display most ADSB traffic but doesn't seem to have quite the same level of coverage as say FlightRadar24 (some flights disappear close to the ground while FR24 will still have them displayed). Obviously its too much of a PITA to switch between FR24 and OzRunways; and AvTraffic seems to strike a nice balance and also has the advantage of displaying some ADSB traffic that FR24 blocks out (like PolAir flights and private owners who have requested their aircraft be blocked).

Does anyone know how the network of receivers that AvTraffic uses differs from that of say FlightRadar24? Are we talking a similar number of receivers or is it actually the same network?

[swells]

Traffic Sources

AvTraffic uses individual feeds from -

• ADS-B Exchange to show nearby ADS-B traffic and Mode-S only traffic using multilateration (MLAT)
• The Open Glider Network to show gliders
• our own servers to show other AvTraffic users

ADS-B Exchange, has a far lower coverage network than the big players, however it doesnt "hide" any aircraft which I guess why FR24 is problematic

[Squawk7700]

If you’ve got a spare $200 or so, I’ll sell you a used ADSB receiver and you won’t have to worry about any of this.

[Egipps]

I use AvPlan. Already see ADSB traffic. But AvTraffic is great for showing the gliders, really handy around Benalla, Bacchus Marsh etc.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by Egipps

I use AvPlan. Already see ADSB traffic. But AvTraffic is great for showing the gliders, really handy around Benalla, Bacchus Marsh etc.

What you're seeing is traffic that's provided via non-certified ADSB receivers, uploading traffic to a website and then being fed into AvPlan and displayed to you on your iPad.

For this to be accurate, this assumes that:

- You have a reliable 4G connection
- There is an ADSB receiver in the area of the other aircraft
- There is no latency on any of those connections
- The FR24 is reliably showing the traffic and the feed is accurate before the ingestion into your EFB

Does it work? Yes.
Is it reliable and "safe" NO.

If you purchase one of these (or similar) pingUSB - uAvionix Australia you are guaranteed reliable, real-time traffic with none of the issues listed above.

[mikewil]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

What you're seeing is traffic that's provided via non-certified ADSB receivers

Does it work? Yes.
Is it reliable and "safe" NO.

Well it isn't necessarily unsafe either.

We aren't talking about using it for traffic separation. Rather becoming aware of another aircraft that you may have otherwise had no idea about.

Using your portable ADSB receivers isn't necessarily safe or reliable either. There are still many VFR VH and RAAus aircraft that don't carry ADSB. AvTraffic may actually display some aircraft that your ADSB Receiver does not as the service displays some Mode S aircraft (as well as anyone else using the AvTraffic app).

I wouldn't want to be fooled into a false sense of security by using either method but still a very useful tool to aid in becoming aware of and spotting traffic.

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by mikewil

I wouldn't want to be fooled into a false sense of security by using either method but still a very useful tool to aid in becoming aware of and spotting traffic.

That's true. But if you really want to push it, then probably the best and most under-utilised method for alerted see-and-avoid is VFR Flight Following.

[tossbag]

Well it isn't necessarily unsafe either.

I would argue that it is unsafe to use as a traffic tool. A lot of pilots are using it in lieu of 'see and avoid'

[Egipps]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

.....
Is it reliable and "safe" NO.

If you purchase one of these (or similar) pingUSB - uAvionix Australia you are guaranteed reliable, real-time traffic with none of the issues listed above.

But do these (or similar) show the OGN (glider network) or any FLARM equipped gliders/aircraft?

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by Egipps

But do these (or similar) show the OGN (glider network) or any FLARM equipped gliders/aircraft?

No.


​​​​​​……

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by mikewil

Well it isn't necessarily unsafe either.

We aren't talking about using it for traffic separation. Rather becoming aware of another aircraft that you may have otherwise had no idea about.

Using your portable ADSB receivers isn't necessarily safe or reliable either. There are still many VFR VH and RAAus aircraft that don't carry ADSB. AvTraffic may actually display some aircraft that your ADSB Receiver does not as the service displays some Mode S aircraft (as well as anyone else using the AvTraffic app).

I wouldn't want to be fooled into a false sense of security by using either method but still a very useful tool to aid in becoming aware of and spotting traffic.

The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out the better, as pilots and developers won’t need to come up with these little be-spoke solutions.

I would be more worried about the plethora of aircraft that have none of these devices.

Does your AvTraffic also show virgin and qantas flying overhead at 30,000ft or can you filter those out?

[Egipps]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out the better, as pilots and developers won’t need to come up with these little be-spoke solutions.

I would be more worried about the plethora of aircraft that have none of these devices.

Does your AvTraffic also show virgin and qantas flying overhead at 30,000ft or can you filter those out?

you can filter them out.

[Desert Flower]

Originally Posted by swells

Traffic Sources

AvTraffic uses individual feeds from -

• ADS-B Exchange to show nearby ADS-B traffic and Mode-S only traffic using multilateration (MLAT)
• The Open Glider Network to show gliders
• our own servers to show other AvTraffic users

ADS-B Exchange, has a far lower coverage network than the big players, however it doesnt "hide" any aircraft which I guess why FR24 is problematic

It does hide some - such as the Polair C208 in YPAD.

DF.

[Squawk7700]

That's the issue with these custom ADSB solutions that pilots are using.

FR24 for example hides the rego of the VicPol helicopters, but not the aircraft itself. As DF says ADSB exchange hides SAPOL...

So who knows what information you're getting on your iPad and it's reliability? These solutions are realistically for non-pilots who want to know what's flying over their house, they aren't suitable for pilots.

Investment in ADSB is the only way forward in terms of reliable safety with coverage at all levels, that doesn't depend on a 4G connection, uncertified receivers at someone's house, their internet connection and some website hosted on the other side of the world, plus the latency that goes with it through some choked up internet pipe between Asia and Australia.

[Egipps]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

That's the issue with these custom ADSB solutions that pilots are using.

FR24 for example hides the rego of the VicPol helicopters, but not the aircraft itself. As DF says ADSB exchange hides SAPOL...

So who knows what information you're getting on your iPad and it's reliability? These solutions are realistically for non-pilots who want to know what's flying over their house, they aren't suitable for pilots.

Investment in ADSB is the only way forward in terms of reliable safety with coverage at all levels, that doesn't depend on a 4G connection, uncertified receivers at someone's house, their internet connection and some website hosted on the other side of the world, plus the latency that goes with it through some choked up internet pipe between Asia and Australia.

Sure, but squillions of gliders in some areas. They rarely use ADSB, but do use OGN and FLARM. And they are really hard to spot when flying.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by Egipps

Sure, but squillions of gliders in some areas. They rarely use ADSB, but do use OGN and FLARM. And they are really hard to spot when flying.

The people that build Flarm should consider sharing their protocol with others then… ADSB is universal, Flarm is proprietary.

[sheepless]

Build a STRATUX. Can be set up to take Flarm and ADS-B. Direct reception and will display on OzRunways or any phone through a web page.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by sheepless

Build a STRATUX. Can be set up to take Flarm and ADS-B. Direct reception and will display on OzRunways or any phone through a web page.

Apologies, the algorithm is proprietary.

[Egipps]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

The people that build Flarm should consider sharing their protocol with others then… ADSB is universal, Flarm is proprietary.

But they do show up on AvTraffic. And from there to AvPlan .. so really useful if you're flying around Bacchus Marsh, Benalla etc

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out the better, as pilots and developers won’t need to come up with these little be-spoke solutions.

I would be more worried about the plethora of aircraft that have none of these devices.

Yep, you should be. None of the aircraft I fly have ADSB-out, nor are they required to and that ain't going to change that any time soon.... plus I regularly frequent Bacchus Marsh, Ballarat, Tooradin, Mangalore and similar high-traffic areas.

If you're not on an IFR flight plan: Keep your eyes out of the darned cockpit!!