Wikiposts
Search
The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Missing light aircraft in the NT

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 28th Mar 2023, 22:57
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,681
Received 43 Likes on 28 Posts
There are hazards in all of life’s activities. And no shortage of them in aviation. But there are things an individual can
do to make sure today is not their numbers day. It’s called decision making. Weather unsuitable..don’t chance it. Cloud ahead..don’t fly into it if not qualified for IMC. Many are those who have flown on… and bought their number up.
aroa is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2023, 01:02
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,944
Received 394 Likes on 209 Posts
Sorry to hear of your loss DF, heartfelt commiserations.
megan is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by megan:
Old 29th Mar 2023, 09:16
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by aroa
There are hazards in all of life’s activities. And no shortage of them in aviation. But there are things an individual can
do to make sure today is not their numbers day. It’s called decision making. Weather unsuitable..don’t chance it. Cloud ahead..don’t fly into it if not qualified for IMC. Many are those who have flown on… and bought their number up.
Don't send a Boy to do a Man's job!

Men have more experience - Boys think they are indestructible.

As a pilot this guy was an infant as per the report.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2023, 11:09
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,292
Received 169 Likes on 86 Posts
Way out of line there Bend alot. The pilot was fully qualified. Yes he was inexperienced, but we’ll never know what really happened.

I was 19 when I went to PNG. Was I doing a Man’s job? I survived. More experienced pilots didn’t.
Capt Fathom is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 29th Mar 2023, 15:34
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,295
Received 139 Likes on 63 Posts
Originally Posted by Bend alot
Don't send a Boy to do a Man's job!

Men have more experience - Boys think they are indestructible.

As a pilot this guy was an infant as per the report.
disgraceful comment.
The pilot was not a student pilot. He was fully qualified to operate that flight and you know it.
What oversight was there from the owner and/or CP to manage the relative inexperience in the local conditions?

Interested to know what you think of a 13000 hour pilot doing something similar recently?
in fact don’t bother.

Last edited by compressor stall; 29th Mar 2023 at 15:50.
compressor stall is online now  
The following 3 users liked this post by compressor stall:
Old 29th Mar 2023, 17:54
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,483
Received 6 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by compressor stall
What oversight was there from the owner and/or CP to manage the relative inexperience in the local conditions?
Can't have been much oversight from the CP away interstate on holidays.
Lasiorhinus is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2023, 02:35
  #247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,944
Received 394 Likes on 209 Posts
Don't send a Boy to do a Man's job!

Men have more experience - Boys think they are indestructible
Crass. I recall accidents where the boy refused to fly because of the weather report, so the man, chief pilot in one case, took the trip, result, one less aircraft in the fleet and a new chief pilot needed, funerals are expensive. Youngsters may be overly cautious due to lack of experience where as the experienced can be over confident, Experience can only be gained by doing, It's a difficult job filling the bag of experience without depleting the bag of luck.
megan is offline  
The following 5 users liked this post by megan:
Old 30th Mar 2023, 06:14
  #248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Lasiorhinus
Can't have been much oversight from the CP away interstate on holidays.
How does one living in aviation in the Top End these days do a Risk Assessment (knowing the dangers of the Wet Season)?

Some company's require previous Wet Season experience as a mitigation point - so it is a real hazard not a perceived hazard.
  • Northern Territory - The offence of industrial manslaughter came into effect in the NT on 1 February 2020. A PCBU or an officer of a PCBU commits industrial manslaughter if they intentionally engage in conduct which breaches a health and safety duty and causes the death of an individual to whom the health and safety duty was owed. The PCBU or officer must also be reckless or negligent about the conduct breaching the health and safety duty and causing the death of that individual. The maximum penalty is imprisonment for life for an individual and fines of $10.2 million for companies.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2023, 09:59
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: tossbagville
Posts: 795
Received 176 Likes on 102 Posts
Don't send a Boy to do a Man's job!

Men have more experience - Boys think they are indestructible.

As a pilot this guy was an infant as per the report.
Yep, poor form.

Can't have been much oversight from the CP away interstate on holidays.
But this is equally as poor, what? You want him/her there 24/7/365? And going on the report he/she was on the ball the whole time.
tossbag is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2023, 10:59
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Paradise
Age: 68
Posts: 1,551
Received 51 Likes on 19 Posts
Men have more experience
None of us are born with experience, and we were all once at the stage that this pilot was. We were all keen to learn, to gain experience, and to please our employer.

As they say, learning to fly takes a while; learning when not to fly takes a bit longer.

​​​​​​​Experienced men are perhaps less error-prone, but by no means error-free.
chimbu warrior is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by chimbu warrior:
Old 30th Mar 2023, 22:37
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,880
Received 193 Likes on 100 Posts
Chief pilots certainly aren’t immune. Think Gold Coast.
Squawk7700 is online now  
Old 31st Mar 2023, 02:25
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,944
Received 394 Likes on 209 Posts
Some company's require previous Wet Season experience as a mitigation point - so it is a real hazard not a perceived hazard.
Yes, but some company has to step up and give that pilot their first wet season experience, if all required prior experience as a mitigation policy there would shortly be no one with experience, as people move on. Certainly a real hazard as the accident records show. Pairing a new pilot with an experienced for his first introduction to the wet would be one option, but for how long, and the cost associated, C210 operator would be up against it I'd assume on those counts and be shortly bankrupt.
megan is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 31st Mar 2023, 07:42
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 1,913
Received 295 Likes on 124 Posts
How many fresh pilots have ‘wet season experience’, and what does that actually mean? 20 hours? 200-300 hours?

How many Pilots does Cairns to Townsville, your ‘Wet Season trained Pilot’ pump out each year? Likely one or two a year. It’s not much.

PoppaJo is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2023, 08:57
  #254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 75
Posts: 1,808
Received 25 Likes on 18 Posts
Originally Posted by aroa
There are hazards in all of life’s activities. And no shortage of them in aviation. But there are things an individual can
do to make sure today is not their numbers day. It’s called decision making. Weather unsuitable..don’t chance it. Cloud ahead..don’t fly into it if not qualified for IMC. Many are those who have flown on… and bought their number up.
Unfortunately, you can explain these risks (& others) to some people but they will still ignore them, either through sheer pigheadedness or the belief that they only happen to other people & not them.

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 31st Mar 2023, 08:59
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 75
Posts: 1,808
Received 25 Likes on 18 Posts
Originally Posted by megan
Sorry to hear of your loss DF, heartfelt commiserations.
Thank you.

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2023, 10:30
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
Way out of line there Bend alot. The pilot was fully qualified. Yes he was inexperienced, but we’ll never know what really happened.

I was 19 when I went to PNG. Was I doing a Man’s job? I survived. More experienced pilots didn’t.
Times change Captain!
He was qualified to wear nappy's.

The Sausage Factories often mentioned hear give evidence of that.

They were not around ( I will wager a LOT prior to you being 19).

Young folk in PNG was a lottery back in the day - I will guess you were pre Y2K or about. Folk were way more mature in LIFE back then, stupid at times yes.

You were very well inducted on your trips in PNG by your Peers - they held your back if need be.

I doubt you were a man at that time - they made you one.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2023, 10:41
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Shows how the qualifications and CAsA are then.

"relative inexperience in the local conditions?"

I have seen many take great precautions (as many as possible) but still been to funerals.

Taking nil or few for a commercial operator is wrong in this day.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2023, 11:29
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,292
Received 169 Likes on 86 Posts
Young folk in PNG was a lottery back in the day
​​​​​​​Please enlighten us.
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2023, 00:51
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,944
Received 394 Likes on 209 Posts
No matter where you fly all regions have weather peculiar to the region that will kill you, flying Victoria it was fog and low, low stratus, at least in the area I flew professorially, cold fronts in SA provided more than enough excitement. All will have their own stories.
megan is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2023, 08:06
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
Please enlighten us.
A mix of could not get a job elsewhere or chasing quick hours.
Mostly.

They knew they got a better $ for a high risk.

When you know your at risk you make different decisions. There you get a ramp check (lol) no real drama - here forget your ASIC or 20 kg of extra fuel (for a diversion) and get caught your in BIG SHyT.

One country you could make things work, the other they would rather you die keeping legal.

Special VFR or even many VFR flight plans are just to be "legal".
Bend alot is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.