What has happened to the Mahindra Airvan?
Then there’s Switzerland. Population 8.7 million. Pilatus seems to have some acceptance in world-wide markets.
And let’s hope we’re not so collectively thick as to be incapable of learning at least one very important (expensive) lesson out of the pandemic: The value of self-sufficiency.
The bushfires should have taught us the lesson (again) of the importance of aviation infrastructure to fire fighting. And then there are the floods….
The bushfires should have taught us the lesson (again) of the importance of aviation infrastructure to fire fighting. And then there are the floods….
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 17th Sep 2022 at 00:41.
AL:
What you are saying is exactly the Economics 101 theory but you miss the point and underline the problem.
As a colony of Britain we were cast in the role of sheep herders and miners by Britain - we send them raw materials, value add to them in Britain and then sell them back to us as textiles and British machinery. That is what colonialism is all about. Economics 101 is taught to support that theory - "we are good at sheep farming and mining" what you are missing is the next sentence. The full text these poor kids at ANU are taught is:
"We are good at sheep farming and mining and nothing else".
The treasury view, which dominates the Government is that sustained manufacturing in Australia is an aberration, it ought not to be possible according to what is taught to your son because we have no economies of scale or competitive advantage. But it gets worse because the Canberra economists go one step further: "If manufacturing is succeeding where it ought not to, then we must be subsidizing it in some way. It follows that we must find and remove the subsidies causing this aberration."
And that is just what they do. For example they destroyed trade training technical schools. They destroyed sensible depreciation tax rules and other tax measures that allowed manufacturing to compete with other industries like property development. They did ( and still do) heaps of things that deliberately make it unattractive to manufacture in Australia. They will continue to do it unless found and rooted out by the Albanese Government.
Competitive advantage is BS and economies of scale are no longer what they were
For example, Japan, a country with very limited car driving opportunities took on the American car industry and destroyed it. Where was Japans automotive industry "competitive advantage"??
Why don't we have a world beating solar energy industry?
Why not a competitive Aviation manufacturing sector?
The answer; Idiot economists in Canberra killing business by blabbering about competitive advantage and economies of scale!
My son (at uni in Canberra!) mentioned essentially the same theory recently. More specifically, let places do what they’re good at, don’t waste your own limited resources trying to replicate those who do it better, just stick to what you’re specifically best at. In our case that’s historically been sheep and mining - not the cleverest of exports. Our tech products were often very good but terribly marketed and not supported by the government or consumers.
As a colony of Britain we were cast in the role of sheep herders and miners by Britain - we send them raw materials, value add to them in Britain and then sell them back to us as textiles and British machinery. That is what colonialism is all about. Economics 101 is taught to support that theory - "we are good at sheep farming and mining" what you are missing is the next sentence. The full text these poor kids at ANU are taught is:
"We are good at sheep farming and mining and nothing else".
The treasury view, which dominates the Government is that sustained manufacturing in Australia is an aberration, it ought not to be possible according to what is taught to your son because we have no economies of scale or competitive advantage. But it gets worse because the Canberra economists go one step further: "If manufacturing is succeeding where it ought not to, then we must be subsidizing it in some way. It follows that we must find and remove the subsidies causing this aberration."
And that is just what they do. For example they destroyed trade training technical schools. They destroyed sensible depreciation tax rules and other tax measures that allowed manufacturing to compete with other industries like property development. They did ( and still do) heaps of things that deliberately make it unattractive to manufacture in Australia. They will continue to do it unless found and rooted out by the Albanese Government.
Competitive advantage is BS and economies of scale are no longer what they were
For example, Japan, a country with very limited car driving opportunities took on the American car industry and destroyed it. Where was Japans automotive industry "competitive advantage"??
Why don't we have a world beating solar energy industry?
Why not a competitive Aviation manufacturing sector?
The answer; Idiot economists in Canberra killing business by blabbering about competitive advantage and economies of scale!
Moderator
Canberra not authorising purchase of material until a firm order had been ...
I don't recall that things got to that stage. However, any attempt at economies were thrown out the window with the small quantity purchasing philosophies extant at the time which just served to push up the selling price needlessly.
As an aside, the best I saw was the support stores function scrapping mega-dollars worth of stuff which had been built up for a known future mandatory mod requirement. Why ? ... hadn't been used at all over the past how ever long. Ergo, Economics/Stores 101, costs too much to hold so get rid of it. Not only get rid of it but physically destroy it. Ah ? Yep, the due time was only a little bit ahead of the destruction .... so ..... then go out and repurchase it all over again. Had they bothered to give engineering or fleet support a quick call, we might have been able to stop that particular exercise in stupidity.
Where do we go when all the holes we've dug run out?
The value of self-sufficiency.
You can only sell the farm once to get the cheaper eggs. If the chooks disappear, there be a problem ....
I don't recall that things got to that stage. However, any attempt at economies were thrown out the window with the small quantity purchasing philosophies extant at the time which just served to push up the selling price needlessly.
As an aside, the best I saw was the support stores function scrapping mega-dollars worth of stuff which had been built up for a known future mandatory mod requirement. Why ? ... hadn't been used at all over the past how ever long. Ergo, Economics/Stores 101, costs too much to hold so get rid of it. Not only get rid of it but physically destroy it. Ah ? Yep, the due time was only a little bit ahead of the destruction .... so ..... then go out and repurchase it all over again. Had they bothered to give engineering or fleet support a quick call, we might have been able to stop that particular exercise in stupidity.
Where do we go when all the holes we've dug run out?
The value of self-sufficiency.
You can only sell the farm once to get the cheaper eggs. If the chooks disappear, there be a problem ....
GA8 with hatch
Just wondering if anyone has come across an Airvan with a floor hole for aerial survey camera install?
I'm told there was a mod but with the "pause" on production there isn't an obvious avenue of enquiry through Mahindra.
I realize there are a few with FLIR installed in the pod but the height of LiDAR equip, around 750mm, is not compatiable with the pod depth.
Size wise ideally something over 550mm either circular or square anywhere in the cabin...
Cheers in advance...
I'm told there was a mod but with the "pause" on production there isn't an obvious avenue of enquiry through Mahindra.
I realize there are a few with FLIR installed in the pod but the height of LiDAR equip, around 750mm, is not compatiable with the pod depth.
Size wise ideally something over 550mm either circular or square anywhere in the cabin...
Cheers in advance...
Last edited by 45 South; 17th Sep 2022 at 08:21.
Moderator
a floor hole for aerial survey camera install?
Having done more than a few over the years, I suggest it would be a fairly straightforward design mod.
Give Aeromariner or HarleyD2 a call - both nice chaps and either should have a good idea of where you might start looking.
Having done more than a few over the years, I suggest it would be a fairly straightforward design mod.
Give Aeromariner or HarleyD2 a call - both nice chaps and either should have a good idea of where you might start looking.
a floor hole for aerial survey camera install?
Having done more than a few over the years, I suggest it would be a fairly straightforward design mod.
Give Aeromariner or HarleyD2 a call - both nice chaps and either should have a good idea of where you might start looking.
Having done more than a few over the years, I suggest it would be a fairly straightforward design mod.
Give Aeromariner or HarleyD2 a call - both nice chaps and either should have a good idea of where you might start looking.
AL:
What you are saying is exactly the Economics 101 theory but you miss the point and underline the problem.
As a colony of Britain we were cast in the role of sheep herders and miners by Britain - we send them raw materials, value add to them in Britain and then sell them back to us as textiles and British machinery. That is what colonialism is all about. Economics 101 is taught to support that theory - "we are good at sheep farming and mining" what you are missing is the next sentence. The full text these poor kids at ANU are taught is:
"We are good at sheep farming and mining and nothing else".
The treasury view, which dominates the Government is that sustained manufacturing in Australia is an aberration, it ought not to be possible according to what is taught to your son because we have no economies of scale or competitive advantage. But it gets worse because the Canberra economists go one step further: "If manufacturing is succeeding where it ought not to, then we must be subsidizing it in some way. It follows that we must find and remove the subsidies causing this aberration."
And that is just what they do. For example they destroyed trade training technical schools. They destroyed sensible depreciation tax rules and other tax measures that allowed manufacturing to compete with other industries like property development. They did ( and still do) heaps of things that deliberately make it unattractive to manufacture in Australia. They will continue to do it unless found and rooted out by the Albanese Government.
Competitive advantage is BS and economies of scale are no longer what they were
For example, Japan, a country with very limited car driving opportunities took on the American car industry and destroyed it. Where was Japans automotive industry "competitive advantage"??
Why don't we have a world beating solar energy industry?
Why not a competitive Aviation manufacturing sector?
The answer; Idiot economists in Canberra killing business by blabbering about competitive advantage and economies of scale!
What you are saying is exactly the Economics 101 theory but you miss the point and underline the problem.
As a colony of Britain we were cast in the role of sheep herders and miners by Britain - we send them raw materials, value add to them in Britain and then sell them back to us as textiles and British machinery. That is what colonialism is all about. Economics 101 is taught to support that theory - "we are good at sheep farming and mining" what you are missing is the next sentence. The full text these poor kids at ANU are taught is:
"We are good at sheep farming and mining and nothing else".
The treasury view, which dominates the Government is that sustained manufacturing in Australia is an aberration, it ought not to be possible according to what is taught to your son because we have no economies of scale or competitive advantage. But it gets worse because the Canberra economists go one step further: "If manufacturing is succeeding where it ought not to, then we must be subsidizing it in some way. It follows that we must find and remove the subsidies causing this aberration."
And that is just what they do. For example they destroyed trade training technical schools. They destroyed sensible depreciation tax rules and other tax measures that allowed manufacturing to compete with other industries like property development. They did ( and still do) heaps of things that deliberately make it unattractive to manufacture in Australia. They will continue to do it unless found and rooted out by the Albanese Government.
Competitive advantage is BS and economies of scale are no longer what they were
For example, Japan, a country with very limited car driving opportunities took on the American car industry and destroyed it. Where was Japans automotive industry "competitive advantage"??
Why don't we have a world beating solar energy industry?
Why not a competitive Aviation manufacturing sector?
The answer; Idiot economists in Canberra killing business by blabbering about competitive advantage and economies of scale!
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Much as I like the 20th Century types, it is worth looking at what is actually happening in the 21st Century. Beta To Certify eCTOL Ahead Of Its Alia eVTOL | Aviation Week Network ,
Much as I like the 20th Century types, it is worth looking at what is actually happening in the 21st Century. Beta To Certify eCTOL Ahead Of Its Alia eVTOL | Aviation Week Network ,
What the hell are AirEnZed gonna use them for? Pilot training? Short-haul cargo? At 5+1 they're not going to be taking much business from their conventional fleet...
From the article: "The fixed-wing CX300 is being launched with orders from Air New Zealand, Bristow Group and United Therapeutics. FAA Part 23 certification and first deliveries of the aircraft are targeted for 2025."
What the hell are AirEnZed gonna use them for? Pilot training? Short-haul cargo? At 5+1 they're not going to be taking much business from their conventional fleet...
What the hell are AirEnZed gonna use them for? Pilot training? Short-haul cargo? At 5+1 they're not going to be taking much business from their conventional fleet...
Virtue-signalling, greenwashing and tax break harvesting.
As a reader of AvWeb, I see new vapourware projects get reported in almost every issue. The readers’ comments are telling.
As a reader of AvWeb, I see new vapourware projects get reported in almost every issue. The readers’ comments are telling.
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Mahindra Aerospace has shut down manufacturing of the GippsAero GA8 Airvan, more than 250 of the aircraft are currently in operation globally. India's Mahindra Aerospace has exited its GippsAero subsidiary in Australia, announcing during a recent earnings call that it had shuttered this busines
With "Lost_in_the_regs" having kick-started this thread (there is also the new one "GA8 back in Aus, how good!"), I just read the old opinions of Sunfish in post #18 and #23. I have never studied at ANU nor any economics degree elsewhere, but I think Sunfish is giving too much weight to the influence of any academics at the ANU Faculty (or Research School) of Economics [[url]https://rse.anu.edu.au/faculty] if Sunfish believes they have so directly influenced the demise of Australian manufacturing. I also think that if a mentality that "we are good at sheep farming and mining and nothing else" exists for any of their many academics, which I doubt, then the students wouldn't simply lap it up. They wouldn't be that stupid.
That aside, it is also very difficult to believe that departments responsible for advising government on economic and industry decisions are stacked full of ANU economics graduates and that they somehow all have a 'group think' that seeks to "deliberately make it unattractive to manufacture in Australia".
My perception is that (foreign based) car manufacturers progressively departed from Australia as they were unable to lobby federal or state governments for financial packages, tax offsets etc that made it sufficiently attractive to maintain a manufacturing base here when they can find cheaper production line labour with lower work conditions elsewhere, perhaps also with more government 'sweeteners'. That is the nature of multi-national companies. It had nothing to do with any ANU Faculty of Economics. But happy to learn if anyone can explain the actual factors in the demise of that industry here.
Shipbuilding in Australia is a case Sunfish might like to consider. Aside from naval shipbuilding which of course is bankrolled by the Federal government, there is a successful and reasonably longstanding industry building quite significant fast ferries, patrol vessels and the like for the local and export market. The largest companies involved are Austal Ships and Incat Tasmania. These companies established themselves in the boat / ship building market AFTER the Federal government finally removed what had once been a quite generous 'bounty' scheme where the government directly contributed to the cost of ships built in Australia. These companies didn't need government subsidies. They had products that had a worldwide market, they had developed a skilled workforce for both design and production, and their marketing has obviously been effective. Both companies have had their ups and downs over the years, but mainly related to the strength of the ferry sector rather than any interference from supposedly bloody minded government departments.
All the best to GippsAero, and hope they get any reasonable support they need from state and federal governments to have access to the skilled workforce that is needed, etc, but short of cash handouts please... let them stand and thrive on their own merits!
That aside, it is also very difficult to believe that departments responsible for advising government on economic and industry decisions are stacked full of ANU economics graduates and that they somehow all have a 'group think' that seeks to "deliberately make it unattractive to manufacture in Australia".
My perception is that (foreign based) car manufacturers progressively departed from Australia as they were unable to lobby federal or state governments for financial packages, tax offsets etc that made it sufficiently attractive to maintain a manufacturing base here when they can find cheaper production line labour with lower work conditions elsewhere, perhaps also with more government 'sweeteners'. That is the nature of multi-national companies. It had nothing to do with any ANU Faculty of Economics. But happy to learn if anyone can explain the actual factors in the demise of that industry here.
Shipbuilding in Australia is a case Sunfish might like to consider. Aside from naval shipbuilding which of course is bankrolled by the Federal government, there is a successful and reasonably longstanding industry building quite significant fast ferries, patrol vessels and the like for the local and export market. The largest companies involved are Austal Ships and Incat Tasmania. These companies established themselves in the boat / ship building market AFTER the Federal government finally removed what had once been a quite generous 'bounty' scheme where the government directly contributed to the cost of ships built in Australia. These companies didn't need government subsidies. They had products that had a worldwide market, they had developed a skilled workforce for both design and production, and their marketing has obviously been effective. Both companies have had their ups and downs over the years, but mainly related to the strength of the ferry sector rather than any interference from supposedly bloody minded government departments.
All the best to GippsAero, and hope they get any reasonable support they need from state and federal governments to have access to the skilled workforce that is needed, etc, but short of cash handouts please... let them stand and thrive on their own merits!
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Shipbuilding in Australia is a case Sunfish might like to consider.
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