Tachometers and Flight Logging
Just go to the new, ever-so-simple Part 61. Here are the highlights from the TOC:
Then you go to the definition of 'flight' in the Act.
Division 61.A.2—Flight time and other aeronautical experience 87
61.070................... Flight to which Division 61.A.2 applies........................... 87
61.075................... Definition of aeronautical experience for Part 61............. 87
61.080................... Definition of flight time as pilot for Part 61...................... 87
61.085................... Definition of flight time as co‑pilot for Part 61................. 87
61.090................... Definition of flight time as pilot in command for Part 61.. 88
61.095................... Definition of flight time as pilot in command under supervision for Part 61 88
61.100................... Definition of flight time as flight engineer for Part 61....... 88
61.105................... Definition of instrument flight time for Part 61................. 89
61.110................... Definition of instrument ground time for Part 61............. 89
61.070................... Flight to which Division 61.A.2 applies........................... 87
61.075................... Definition of aeronautical experience for Part 61............. 87
61.080................... Definition of flight time as pilot for Part 61...................... 87
61.085................... Definition of flight time as co‑pilot for Part 61................. 87
61.090................... Definition of flight time as pilot in command for Part 61.. 88
61.095................... Definition of flight time as pilot in command under supervision for Part 61 88
61.100................... Definition of flight time as flight engineer for Part 61....... 88
61.105................... Definition of instrument flight time for Part 61................. 89
61.110................... Definition of instrument ground time for Part 61............. 89
If you were in a helicopter, as soon as the rotor starts to turn, the aircraft is moving - rattling side to side, up and down - for the purpose of flight. And it is capable of flight - doesn't need to taxy to a runway and then gain airspeed for it to get off the ground. A careless movement with the left hand, or sometimes left leg, and the machine leaves the ground, though only for a very short time.
So, chopper drivers usually log start to stop time in their books, but maintenance is skids off to skids on. Robinson may nominate something else.
So, chopper drivers usually log start to stop time in their books, but maintenance is skids off to skids on. Robinson may nominate something else.
I’ve an idea: Howz about we enter “flight time” as defined in the regs as “flight time” in our pilot logbooks kept in accordance with the regs? Crazy, I know, but I’m getting a bit flaky in my old age.
So flaky that I’ll go so far as to suggest that we should enter “time in service” as defined in the regs as “time in service” on maintenance documentation for the aircraft we fly.
And guess what? Neither of those definitions has squat to do with what a tacho says.
The fact that these issues are debated in the 21st century in Australia is a testament to the great success of the regulatory ‘reform’ program and the performance of CASA’s education function.
The fact that there are so many and varied practices is a testament to how unimportant the exact numbers are to real-world pilot competence and aircraft continuing airworthiness. But that won’t stop CASA, when CASA decides precision is important. So be careful.
So flaky that I’ll go so far as to suggest that we should enter “time in service” as defined in the regs as “time in service” on maintenance documentation for the aircraft we fly.
And guess what? Neither of those definitions has squat to do with what a tacho says.
The fact that these issues are debated in the 21st century in Australia is a testament to the great success of the regulatory ‘reform’ program and the performance of CASA’s education function.
The fact that there are so many and varied practices is a testament to how unimportant the exact numbers are to real-world pilot competence and aircraft continuing airworthiness. But that won’t stop CASA, when CASA decides precision is important. So be careful.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 28th Feb 2022 at 23:27.
I really don't understand how hard it must be to look at your watch at taxi start and taxi completion and log that time (provided you intended to get airborne). As I said earlier VDO/HOBBES is the closest approximation to it however it will be erroneous if the recording starts with battery power or extended engine operation prior to taxi.
Maintenance will run off whatever the approved maintenance system specifies, whether it uses tacho, airswitch, cycles, dates, that's all specified in the maintenance manual, not pilot related stuff. Those meters may or may not be reliably recording flight time as per the regulations, most likely they will under-read the required flight time definition for pilots log books. A flying club/org could charge by any switch, dry or wet, day rates, weekend rates, air services in or out, bulk hour rates, or no charge at all, that's up to them. What a pilot logs for legal purposes has been covered, chock to chock for the intention of flight. If the craft taxis by itself, or becomes airborne in a gust of wind, extreme vibrations, earthquakes or floats down the river in a once in a 100 year flood (that's happening every 5 years) etc etc, that is not moving with intention of flight. I once jumped in a self taxiing twin whilst it was moseying along by itself in a strong wind. I did not log the time from when I hopped in and brought it to a stop, as I was not sure that the aircraft had the intention of becoming airborne.
Logging of flight times for pilots has a legal definition, so follow that as per above posts containing the references, especially if you intend to use the hours for qualifications or duty limitations. I've seen passengers keep logs of flight time, there is no legality that says you can't you can log anything you want as long as you don't use it for something you are not legally entitled to.
Maintenance will run off whatever the approved maintenance system specifies, whether it uses tacho, airswitch, cycles, dates, that's all specified in the maintenance manual, not pilot related stuff. Those meters may or may not be reliably recording flight time as per the regulations, most likely they will under-read the required flight time definition for pilots log books. A flying club/org could charge by any switch, dry or wet, day rates, weekend rates, air services in or out, bulk hour rates, or no charge at all, that's up to them. What a pilot logs for legal purposes has been covered, chock to chock for the intention of flight. If the craft taxis by itself, or becomes airborne in a gust of wind, extreme vibrations, earthquakes or floats down the river in a once in a 100 year flood (that's happening every 5 years) etc etc, that is not moving with intention of flight. I once jumped in a self taxiing twin whilst it was moseying along by itself in a strong wind. I did not log the time from when I hopped in and brought it to a stop, as I was not sure that the aircraft had the intention of becoming airborne.
Logging of flight times for pilots has a legal definition, so follow that as per above posts containing the references, especially if you intend to use the hours for qualifications or duty limitations. I've seen passengers keep logs of flight time, there is no legality that says you can't you can log anything you want as long as you don't use it for something you are not legally entitled to.
43B Time‑in‑service to be recorded on maintenance release
(1) On the completion of flying operations on each day that an aircraft is flown, the owner, operator or pilot in command must record on the maintenance release the total time‑in‑service of the aircraft on the day.
Penalty: 25 penalty units.
(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(1) On the completion of flying operations on each day that an aircraft is flown, the owner, operator or pilot in command must record on the maintenance release the total time‑in‑service of the aircraft on the day.
Penalty: 25 penalty units.
(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
That's a general rule, the time in service must be recorded for overall airframe life, however various parts have maintenance requirements based on whatever the maintenance manual says for that part. Landing gear, pressurisation systems, certain engine parts are on cyclical limits on most types, usually based on landings, pressure cycles or starter cycles. The engine life can be run off tacho for instance, or VDO as one poster said above for Rotax installations. If you were to set up your own schedule of maintenance for your type you could set the limits as per your own limitations to whatever counter should you have the data to back it up.
Be that as it may, it has nothing to do with the OP’s question.
“Compelling evidence” of what? It’s only compelling evidence that the flight time logged in a pilot’s log book matches the hirer’s charging methodology. I think you’ll find CASA’s more worried about whether the logged flight time equals the pilot’s actual flight time. (Crazy as it may seem.)
“Many practices are generally considered acceptable” by whom? I don’t doubt that there are many and varied practices out there. As I said, it just goes to show how unimportant the exact numbers are to pilot competence and airworthiness in the real world.
I remain in awe at our apparently endless ability to complicate simple concepts.
“Many practices are generally considered acceptable” by whom? I don’t doubt that there are many and varied practices out there. As I said, it just goes to show how unimportant the exact numbers are to pilot competence and airworthiness in the real world.
I remain in awe at our apparently endless ability to complicate simple concepts.
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
The obligation to log flight time, as defined, in the regulations is unaffected by how an aircraft hirer chooses to charge for the use of the aircraft
The obligation to log flight time, as defined, in the regulations is unaffected by how an aircraft hirer chooses to charge for the use of the aircraft
Exactly.
I can hire my aircraft to pilots at $3,300 per day if I want, irrespective of how many hours it is or is not flown each day, because that’s the opportunity cost to me of not having the aircraft available for my use each day. Doesn’t make a schmick of difference to what the regulations require the pilots to enter in their logbooks and in the aircraft’s MR at the end of each day’s flying (if the aircraft is flown).
I can hire my aircraft to pilots at $3,300 per day if I want, irrespective of how many hours it is or is not flown each day, because that’s the opportunity cost to me of not having the aircraft available for my use each day. Doesn’t make a schmick of difference to what the regulations require the pilots to enter in their logbooks and in the aircraft’s MR at the end of each day’s flying (if the aircraft is flown).
I should add, that as a pilot I used to log the total running time, not flight time I know, but still in control of a running aircraft, CASA would not be amused if you hopped out and went walk about while leaving it running.
Megan, more than one pilot has stood outside his helicopter, d1ck in hand, splashing his boots, and watched as the machine vibrated itself off the rock / cliff on which he stopped for a wee.
Like you, I logged engine start to engine stop, and the customer paid for that time as well. Maintenance time was as per the regs.
Like you, I logged engine start to engine stop, and the customer paid for that time as well. Maintenance time was as per the regs.
more than one pilot has stood outside his helicopter, d1ck in hand, splashing his boots, and watched as the machine vibrated itself off the rock / cliff on which he stopped for a wee.
More tall tales from the Walt of Walts!
Otherwise not saying anything much new here but I've always logged engine on to engine off (except for engine failure!), given that's when one is - hopefully - in control of the craft, however some aircraft operators I've known have charged based on hobbs meter with a switch on the handbrake. Quite decent of them I thought; if you were sitting somewhere on the ground waiting for departure clearance and you had the brake on that's not being charged, however once the brakes off and you're rolling the clock was ticking. I'm fairly sure there was an airspeed switch involved as well, although I never tried it I should think they had ways of preventing unscrupulous types flying along with the handbrake on...
FP.
Hand brake mechanism sounds like a good idea, however, in my experience there are lots of hirers that will work that to set the brake to a position it won't tick over. The oil pressure switch is pretty fool proof for charging as it is difficult to tamper with or circumvent. Old fashioned tacho or flight switch even better as you promote proper warm up and taxi technique to reduce wear and tear on the aircraft. Although I have seen airswitch tampered with to slow metering. VDO/HOBBS inevitably pushes users to 'rush' into the air and possible increase wear on things. I was always in favor of Airswitch usage for charging and a flat taxi fee for consumables on the ground. Operators don't like this though as they get an extra .2-.3 on the ground where the maintenance is technically not ticking over when using VDO/HOBBS and therefore it covers misuse theoretically.
I've also seen a few Ag ops refueling/refilling with engine running while the pilot takes a break, more than a few times.
I've also seen a few Ag ops refueling/refilling with engine running while the pilot takes a break, more than a few times.
unscrupulous types flying along with the handbrake on
There was an operator, still in business, which, in the early 90s, had a B206 on cross-hire from its private owner. The owner looked forward to a monthly cheque to offset his costs, but the amount kept getting less and less.
He contacted the owner of the school and asked what was happening. "Oh, not much demand for a B206 at the moment."
One Sunday, he was passing the airport and saw his machine fly overhead. "Great, some money this month!"
But no cheque. He asked again, "No, it hasn't flown."
Owner checks the maintenance release, no entries.
He says to himself, "Self, something isn't right here."
He gets his maintenance company (different from the school) to fit a hidden Hobbs meter in the broom closet.
Next month, again "no flight", so he looks at the secret Hobbs which shows that it has been flown. The school had been pulling the circuit breaker for the Hobbs and flying unrecorded time - the maintenance had to be way overdue. He blew the whistle to CASA, and the Chief Pilot went for the high jump - a shame, because he was a nice guy and it was the hungry Owner of the school who got away with it and kept on going. Without the private B206.
The school was known as The Breaker Brothers since then.
He contacted the owner of the school and asked what was happening. "Oh, not much demand for a B206 at the moment."
One Sunday, he was passing the airport and saw his machine fly overhead. "Great, some money this month!"
But no cheque. He asked again, "No, it hasn't flown."
Owner checks the maintenance release, no entries.
He says to himself, "Self, something isn't right here."
He gets his maintenance company (different from the school) to fit a hidden Hobbs meter in the broom closet.
Next month, again "no flight", so he looks at the secret Hobbs which shows that it has been flown. The school had been pulling the circuit breaker for the Hobbs and flying unrecorded time - the maintenance had to be way overdue. He blew the whistle to CASA, and the Chief Pilot went for the high jump - a shame, because he was a nice guy and it was the hungry Owner of the school who got away with it and kept on going. Without the private B206.
The school was known as The Breaker Brothers since then.
Just more proof that all the over regulating of GA ever did was hamstring honest operators. And those that bend the rules to make cash survive as long as they are smart enough to do it carefully to not attract attention. The frustration I had in GA when competing with unscrupulous operators that undercut legit operators and did quasi illegal things that were hard to prove, let alone get CASAs interest. One of the main issues that should be addressed is that the owner/manager needs to bear the brunt of legal consequences, not the staff. Start sending the shonky bosses to jail for accidents and rule breeches, things clean up very fast. In any case I feel that was by far one of the biggest issue for GA for the last 50 years.
Start putting the owner on trial for why a plane busted a minima, why a pilot busted flight and duty limits, why an aircraft went past maintenance. The owner will hire and pay staff that wont put him in jail and the industry cleans up. At present the PIC and CP wear the consequences of actions that can really be grouped into commercial pressure, which is directed down the chain by company culture. You want the culture to change, start at the top.
Start putting the owner on trial for why a plane busted a minima, why a pilot busted flight and duty limits, why an aircraft went past maintenance. The owner will hire and pay staff that wont put him in jail and the industry cleans up. At present the PIC and CP wear the consequences of actions that can really be grouped into commercial pressure, which is directed down the chain by company culture. You want the culture to change, start at the top.