Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions
Reload this Page >

Cessna 'Down' near Sutton, N. of Canberra

The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Cessna 'Down' near Sutton, N. of Canberra

Old 16th Apr 2021, 09:17
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 757
Adequate training should be done, not sure if that was the case here? An Ag rating should be considered minimum for ANY low level work. There has been a trend for a so called "Low level " endorsements for powerline inspection, training should cover all conditions/weather.
Super Cecil is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 10:53
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 3,754
Originally Posted by Super Cecil View Post
An Ag rating should be considered minimum for ANY low level work.
Why an AG Rating? It is for a very specific purpose!
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 12:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 59
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by Super Cecil View Post
Adequate training should be done, not sure if that was the case here? An Ag rating should be considered minimum for ANY low level work. There has been a trend for a so called "Low level " endorsements for powerline inspection, training should cover all conditions/weather.
You obviously have no idea what youíre talking about in regards to this accident and those involved.
roundsounds is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 20:01
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SE Qld, Australia
Age: 74
Posts: 1,036
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about in regards to this accident and those involved.
Well said, roundsounds.
Dora-9 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 23:01
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: kennel
Posts: 1
Would it be safer to use a zenith 750 or suchlike with LE slats and good s low speed capabilities?
dysslexicgod is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 23:31
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 3,477
training should cover all conditions/weather.
Cecil, we didn't go out on powerline inspections if there was low cloud / rain / fog / strong winds / night time.

And an Ag rating is absolutely not needed.
Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2021, 08:31
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 757
You blokes are not the only ones to have done powerline work, wasting time here listening to you blokes dribble
Super Cecil is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2021, 12:31
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Cowra
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by roundsounds View Post
You obviously have no idea what youíre talking about in regards to this accident and those involved.
Oh how wrong you are roundsounds.
ThrushG10 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2021, 20:43
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by Super Cecil View Post
You blokes are not the only ones to have done powerline work, wasting time here listening to you blokes dribble
Donít worry Cecil, you canít expect those without experience like yours to understand the low level world in itís entirety.

Extremely sad to see lives lost.

Unfortunately with the way these power companies are, it will always be contracted out to the cheapest operation, not necessarily to the safest or most appropriate means of doing the job.
FJ44 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 03:24
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,490
I'll dribble in a quick question...on the day of the accident I saw on TV about the raging cold front/snow/ strong winds doing a job on SE Oz.
How was the weather in the Sutton area at the time ?
aroa is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 04:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
Posts: 1,765
Have spent a lot of time low and slow in the back seat for aerial filming.

As most would know, High voltage powerlines are a doddle to survey compared to distribution lines that duck and weave and do their best to hide in the trees.

Did a season in NSW operating a power company's $700k stabilised gimbal. I believe this operation has since been replaced with a hand held stills.(?)
The idea was to fly higher and faster and record in HD (2k) and do a QA check in the office on a big screen. This was a success apart from its high cost (!) The demonstration/proving sales pitch was conducted during a short demo flight of poles that were not obstructed by trees so poles per minute count was higher than real world.

An accident database I collated 2000-2013, the number of incidents where stabilised gimbals are employed is very low compared to open door shooting. My view is, in general, the more expensive the cost per hour the better managed is the flight.
New technology of relevance, in the last few weeks Sony launched a 8k stills camera which is cable of 30fps. Late last year a 12k motion picture camera became available from South Melbourne run company Blackmagic design. The cost of exterior mounted stabilsied gimbals to house these cameras remains relatively high and is a barrier to their use.
Lidar continues to improve as well.

In the 1990's the cost of burying all the power lines in Australia was put at $50B. https://www.aph.gov.au/sitecore/cont...IB9697/97cib11
In 2002 cost of replacing aerial with underground lines in NSW was $7500 per customer, if this was amortised over 15 years I believe it is doable.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/powe...30-gdfhx4.html

Roll on to 2019 in USA is $3m per mile (run buy energy companies rather than community) for distribution lines or $15k per customer
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news...ot/3937653002/

My point is that if aerial inspections are the solution to otherwise spending $15k per customer, workplace safety of those providing the solution should not be compromised. (I'm not saying it was in this incident)
Sad and frustrated to hear of two lives lost in what should be an unremarkable survey mission, I hope the cause was unavoidable, ie bird strike or freak mechanical failure.

I'm reminded of the Dec 2014 fixed wing crash during photography of the Sydney to Hobart race where Aussie Ppruners were criticised for insensitivity in discussing the incident before official investigations had begun.
Column inches immediately after an incident can have an effect on political response, which in turn can have a positive effect on workplace safety. A mission to improve the safety of critical infrastructure for the benefit of communities has ended in tragedy.

Mjb

Last edited by mickjoebill; 18th Apr 2021 at 05:33.
mickjoebill is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 05:48
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,712
Well said, mjb.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 07:35
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,056
Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post


I'm reminded of the Dec 2014 fixed wing crash during photography of the Sydney to Hobart race where Aussie Ppruners were criticised for insensitivity in discussing the incident before official investigations had begun.
Mjb
I seem to recall that you were the one that was sensitive about this event, but the pictures at the time spoke for themselves.


Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 08:04
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
Posts: 1,765
Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
I seem to recall that you were the one that was sensitive about this event, but the pictures at the time spoke for themselves.

IF you are referring to me, I'm puzzled. I received PM to stop commenting on the match race crash by friends/acquatances of the family who were holding onto hope it was not pilot error.
mickjoebill is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 11:12
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,056
Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
IF you are referring to me, I'm puzzled. I received PM to stop commenting on the match race crash by friends/acquatances of the family who were holding onto hope it was not pilot error.
So you were in the other camp then. I recall it coming up either way.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2021, 02:57
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Whanganui, NZ
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
In the 1990's the cost of burying all the power lines in Australia was put at $50B. https://www.aph.gov.au/sitecore/cont...IB9697/97cib11
In 2002 cost of replacing aerial with underground lines in NSW was $7500 per customer, if this was amortised over 15 years I believe it is doable.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/powe...30-gdfhx4.html

Roll on to 2019 in USA is $3m per mile (run buy energy companies rather than community) for distribution lines or $15k per customer
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news...ot/3937653002/

My point is that if aerial inspections are the solution to otherwise spending $15k per customer, workplace safety of those providing the solution should not be compromised. (I'm not saying it was in this incident)
Sad and frustrated to hear of two lives lost in what should be an unremarkable survey mission, I hope the cause was unavoidable, ie bird strike or freak mechanical failure.

Mjb
I think your figures are way too cheap.
When I worked for an electricity distribution company twenty years ago, our general rule of thumb for undergrounding overhead distribution lines was "$5k per span plus $5k each end"..
Just my $NZ0.02 worth
kiwi grey is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2021, 11:01
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 59
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by aroa View Post
I'll dribble in a quick question...on the day of the accident I saw on TV about the raging cold front/snow/ strong winds doing a job on SE Oz.
How was the weather in the Sutton area at the time ?
look it up
roundsounds is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.