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Runway Incursion Altitude Limit

Old 10th Sep 2020, 23:32
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Runway Incursion Altitude Limit

Hi guys,

Runway Incursions from the definitions I have seen describe surface ocurrences. Is there a term for this if the offending aircraft is airborne, yet within the runway area? I know that the gable markers and holding points specify the horizontal boundaries of a runway protected area, but what I am mostly asking about is what is the vertical limit of the runway protected area. I imagine that it would ascend to the upper limit of the airspace of the airfield or at least to the circuit altitude, but does anybody know if this is specified anywhere? I've never heard of it being mentioned.
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Old 10th Sep 2020, 23:41
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Originally Posted by Mutley Eugenius View Post
Hi guys,

Runway Incursions from the definitions I have seen describe surface ocurrences. Is there a term for this if the offending aircraft is airborne, yet within the runway area? I know that the gable markers and holding points specify the horizontal boundaries of a runway protected area, but what I am mostly asking about is what is the vertical limit of the runway protected area. I imagine that it would ascend to the upper limit of the airspace of the airfield or at least to the circuit altitude, but does anybody know if this is specified anywhere? I've never heard of it being mentioned.
It's a splay, predicated on runway width, you can find all that in the back of ERSA. From memory, don't quote me out to a maximum of 180 metres.
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 00:53
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vertical limit of the runway protected area.
Depends on what is happening. Tower can allow you to cross a runway if they feel it is safe, either at ground level or some altitude above that. I have crossed active runways at 500' while aircraft were on their landing rollout, or crossing behind an aircraft on the takeoff roll. America has some interesting rules for choppers crossing active runways.
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 03:57
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
I have crossed active runways at 500' while aircraft were on their landing rollout,...
There's a trap there, and a few ATCO's have been caught out when the "landing" aircraft goes missed. 99.95% of the time, it works well, but that other 0.05% is when they (and you if visual) will need to be on your toes!
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 04:22
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Perhaps I should have said "behind the aircraft on landing rollout" which was what happened.

ATC says "Cross behind the landing aircraft..."
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 04:27
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
Perhaps I should have said "behind the aircraft on landing rollout" which was what happened.

ATC says "Cross behind the landing aircraft..."
Didn't mean to be seen as having a go at you AC, sorry if you took it that way, just pointing out that ATCO's have before given clearance to helicopters and others to cross mid-field with one "landing" but overlooked the landing clearance is also a clearance to go around or fly the missed approach. And on the rare occasion that happens, there's now a conflict that needs resolving right now!

The ATSB Report when they did it at Melbourne a couple years ago under LAHSO with one on the takeoff roll, another went around themselves and a 3rd on the crossing runway were ordered to go around.
And another one at Bankstown - helicopter cleared across at midfield, landing aircraft went around and they passed at an estimated 30-50m at the same altitude!
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 05:15
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Air space from GND to UNL, so RW has no vertical limit. If the runway has vertical limits, where is the pressure measurement point?
There is no separation between ground and airborne traffic

Last edited by usedtobeATC; 11th Sep 2020 at 05:25.
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