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DA40 night over water

Old 31st May 2019, 11:08
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DA40 night over water

Just watched 2 FTA DA40ís depart Parafield and fly directly across St Vincentís gulf to Kangaroo island, at around 4,000í !! Call me old fashioned but I wouldnít be flying a single engine to Kangaroo Island at night in winter over water at low level even with life jackets.....

Whereís the common sense in this?

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Old 31st May 2019, 15:48
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The lights in the water are not fishing boats in that part of the world, but the upturned eyes and snouts of the Noah's Arks (sharks for the ignorant)
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Old 31st May 2019, 22:26
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Where would you fly a single engine aircraft at night? Are the survival odds any better for crashing on land?
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 00:19
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As we all know aviation is about risk, personal risk. When I got my class 4 many moons ago I was brave (probably more foolish) & used to fly whatever I could hire around remote area's as well as cities (coastal) at night. Advance fwd near 40 years would I do it again in a SE? NOWAY! I won't even fly SE IMC or over water despite numerous trips to the islands off Vic back when I was foolish & I have my own aircraft these days so I know it very well, I wanna die a grumpy old man not shark bait or in a special care hospital with a broken back!
Each to their own.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 00:26
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A straight line from Parafeild to Kangaroo Island looks pretty close to the coast. Especially at 4000ft
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 00:53
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I flew to KI a while back, daytime, 7000'. Would have been happy to be higher. At KI I met a fellow who'd just flown his Jab across at 2500'. Each to his own, I guess. As an RA Aus pilot, what would I know?
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 01:21
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Hypothermia time to RIP

A lot of noise about survival post ditching in that body of water and getting chomped by Jaws.
If a fixed wing single or multi does a textbook ditching there day or night in June. Hypothermia is thine enemy.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 02:33
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Unless Iím mistaken, nobody has survived a Bass Strait ditching, day OR night !

The two guys in the Thruster went down in Banks strait.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 03:26
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Originally Posted by cmcmon View Post
A straight line from Parafeild to Kangaroo Island looks pretty close to the coast. Especially at 4000ft

ahhh no, puts you well outside glide distance, around 16 nm from land.
If I “had” to go direct in a single it would be at 10,000’ but I wouldn’t fly direct at low level just to avoid the YPAD class D....
All kinds of ignorance flying there at 4,000’

I’ve also seen plenty of single engine NVFR at 6,000 over the hills north east of Melb to. Crazy when they could go via MNG ML at higher level and greatly increase their survival chances after failure.

What are some people thinking?
Obviously not much !!

Last edited by ACMS; 1st Jun 2019 at 08:03.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 04:01
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At its narrowest point (and why would you cross anywhere else in a single engine?) it's a bit under 9 miles. Takes about 5 minutes in the jab, during which time you listen even more carefully than usual to the engine. I would do it during the day in perfect weather only, but I'm a renowned coward.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 04:17
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Folks,
We all know, as land based pilots, that the engine goes into "auto-rough" as soon as you are out of gliding distance of land ---- unless you are a naval aviator, when a similar event occurs as soon as you are out of gliding distance of water.
Similarly, I have often wondered how an engine tells night from day.
Ain't human psychology wonderful, particularly when it is applied (more truly misapplied) to aviation risk assessment. Lead Balloon's perception bias does come to mind.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 04:25
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Unless I’m mistaken, nobody has survived a Bass Strait ditching, day OR night
You may be talking FW, familiar with two RW ditchings (I winched one lot out where all survived and barely got their feet wet), the other involved two fatalities, probably a result of crash dynamics hitting the water almost inverted, six survivors.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 07:34
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
You may be talking FW, familiar with two RW ditchings (I winched one lot out where all survived and barely got their feet wet), the other involved two fatalities, probably a result of crash dynamics hitting the water almost inverted, six survivors.
When was that Megan and what were they flying? I donít remember either of them.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 08:36
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When I was flying a Swiss SE Turbine Adelaide to the island was a FL120 leg, or even up to FL160 if it was off Rwy05 and onto the Rwy01 RNAV. Rex does it at 8/9000 typically in the Saab.
4000ft (even with a life jacket) isnít ideal but then a lot of the time they go down to 2200í overwater still and practice holding (inc at night). The hardest part is managing them as traffic - usually the students second language English radio calls are better than the South African instructors botched attempts.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 09:03
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Originally Posted by cooperplace View Post
I flew to KI a while back, daytime, 7000'. Would have been happy to be higher. At KI I met a fellow who'd just flown his Jab across at 2500'. Each to his own, I guess. As an RA Aus pilot, what would I know?
Give that 'Jab' guy a cigar, he's one brave sole! -
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 11:12
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How about Moresby to Madang at night in a C185! I was a rather reluctant participant (passenger).
Probably safer than the flying I was doing during daylight hours.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 13:35
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At least at night you do not have to shut your eyes.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 22:06
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post


Give that 'Jab' guy a cigar, he's one brave sole! -
A couple of chaps flew a couple of Jabiruís to NZ a half dozen years ago.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 23:05
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
A couple of chaps flew a couple of Jabiruís to NZ a half dozen years ago.
I'd fly a Rotax powered Jab to N.Z.- but I wouldn't do one circuit in a Jab powered Jab.
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Old 2nd Jun 2019, 01:41
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ACMS, are you suggesting simply 'box-ticking' is a better solution to training up and coming pilots in Australia?

Rather than expose potential charter pilots (yes.. they train people other than Asian students believe it or not..) to what they might be faced with once gaining their instrument rating, should they be wrapped in cotton wool and practice night flying at 2000ft above an airfield? Kingscote is as black as it gets at night and great real-world exposure for students late in their training.

Also, personally I'd also prefer the ocean to the mount lofty ranges at night time... at least you know what altitude the ocean starts out there.
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