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Giving Up.

Old 12th Apr 2019, 05:34
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Giving Up.

I wish I’d never started flying as a form of recreation. What pisses me off is the risk of losing my house, fortune, reputation and freedom to travel from the one risk that cannot be managed - CASA.

Physical risks are known and manageable through time honored techniques of preparation and training, what cannot be managed is regulatory risk.

There is ample evidence for what follows in the form of the Forsyth Review, AAT transcripts and court proceedings as well as anecdotal evidence on prune. There is no legal way of managing regulatory risk - which has the potential to destroy your life and family.

The regulatory risk is the result of a combination of factors;

- The regulations are so complex, convoluted, contradictory, prescriptive, byzantine, arcane that I defy anyone to fully understand even a fraction of them - and I have an engineering degree, MBA and have survived in the top levels of business without trouble yet even I cannot make sense of this rubbish. What’s worse, neither can CASA staff which brings me to the next issue.

- Inconsistent interpretation. At least according to PPRuNe, the regulations are so bad that they require “interpretation” by CASA staff and the interpretation varies according to the interpreter. This then raises the little matter of corruption; when there are two or more possible interpretations, CASA staff can suit themselves which one they choose - to the delight or dismay of the pilot concerned. This is just plain wrong. But even that would be bearable were it not for:

- criminal penalties and strict liability offenses. Aviation offenses against regulation are defined as criminal offenses - meaning all of them are felonies (ie: you get a criminal record if convicted) they are not something like road traffic offenses or littering most of which are misdemeanors or civil matters. Being labeled a felon has consequences. You cannot travel overseas, your employment and other social options are limited. But even this is manageable if CASA was not demonstrably capricious and unfair.

-CASA model litigant? According to evidence CASA adopts a win at all costs regulatory strategy. This means that once a target is selected, a witch hunt ensues, looking for multiple offenses to “get” the quarry. I confess now; my logbook will have arithmetic errors in it, my torque wrench is uncalibrated, my tyre caps are missing- People have lost their livelihoods over such matters.

- But even this is bearable were it not for the fact that CASA writes the rules, then interprets, enforces and decides on punishment itself. If these functions were separate, the blizzard of “please explains” between the various functions would result in rapid simplification of the rules just to preserve the sanity of the staff. Instead the poor bloody pilots and engineers have to put up with this insanity.

I have spent the best part of $75,000 on building an aircraft. I am yet to face registering it and getting a certificate of airworthiness. Despite my best efforts by definition it would be possible to find non compliance’s somewhere, somehow. I am also up for a flight. review, medical and ASIC renewal with associated costs and I now doubt my sanity in learning to fly in the first place.

There are some who say “don’t worry, she’ll be right” but that’s not what the regulations say. I didn’t build a career on “she’ll be right”. What is destroying my sleep at night is the thought that I may be unwittingly contravening regulations in building registering and flying this thing and there seems to be no way to manage the risk of punitive action by CASA, and of course “strict liability” offenses precludes the defense of making an honest mistake.

Dick Smith is right; get out now. If you are contemplating flying for fun, take up golf or yachting instead.

Sunfish is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2019, 06:07
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Relax mate, have a beer. It’s not all bad.
junior.VH-LFA is online now  
Old 12th Apr 2019, 06:33
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I'm convinced you are right, Sunfish.

Swap "CASA" for "Government" and your plight describes where our country is headed. A politicised, beaurocratic, PC, socialised disaster.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 06:36
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It might not all be bad, but Sunfish is simply underlining many issues that do exist.

Just how much worse a situation will we accept?
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 06:38
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No less than a few weeks ago Sunfish, you told us that you sold your Zenith kit and were looking to buy something else so therefore do not own an aircraft.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 07:23
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“Inconsistent interpretation. At least according to PPRuNe.....”

And there lies your first problem. I wouldn’t be using PPRuNe and the interpretation of others as a basis for anything.

Fishing and golf....focus on that.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 07:33
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
I have spent the best part of $75,000 on building an aircraft. I am yet to face registering it and getting a certificate of airworthiness.
<snip>
I am also up for a flight. review, medical and ASIC renewal with associated costs
So you still haven't had any dealings with CASA at all, but you think when you do, you'll have a bad time and so are tossing it all in beforehand??


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Old 12th Apr 2019, 08:05
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The one thing that we all tend to hide and don't believe it effects us..........mental health, it's a very real threat!
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 09:42
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Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
I'm convinced you are right, Sunfish.

Swap "CASA" for "Government" and your plight describes where our country is headed. A politicised, beaurocratic, PC, socialised disaster.
Why not join the EU, where all is sweetness and light?
ShyTorque is online now  
Old 12th Apr 2019, 10:06
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Yes, ShyT, it is worse there, no doubt. It seems we are all afflicted with the same disease:

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 11:35
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Fact1: There are good people in CASA.
Fact2: There are complete turds in CASA.
Pleas don't tar everyone with the same brush, CASA are no different from many other modern organisations, and don't think their current overbearing attitude is sustainable - it's just a trend until the turds move on.

and the interpretation varies according to the interpreter
Which can also work in your favour by referring any issue to other staff or escalating disputes - this has recently worked very well for me when dealing with CASA.

Finally, I could never do the kind of flying I do here in this country than what I see in another European country that I frequently visit where you can go to jail for just photographing an airport.

I say this as someone who currently has a gig with the feds (not CASA) and I reckon we could get rid of 50% of our staff (another work colleague argues 70%) and the public whom we serve wouldn't notice anything. Sadly. it's a sign of the times due to broader social issues that extend beyond that of the basic work tasks required of an individual.

Don't give up.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 12:08
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
Fact1: There are good people in CASA.
Fact2: There are complete turds in CASA
Sadly there must be be more of the latter than the former else GA would not be in the predicament it is in.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 16:06
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Go fly. Ignore CASA. Happy days!
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 01:40
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Good luck with your next venture Sunfish! I trust you'll be moving on from Prune at the same time...
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 01:55
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I think the OP displays what Ms Gillard would have called "Hyperbowl"

Dick Smith doesn't run an aviation business, if he did he might realise that the flying training side of GA is booming.

There are good and rotten people in CASA, just as in any regulatory authority.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 08:54
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You've got approximately 7018 posts, Sunfish. Assuming each of them averaged around 10 minutes to write, including where appropriate reading the preceding posts, that is just over 1169 hours spent posting here, which is comparable to the reported build time of Zenith kit planes! If all you ever read is crash reports, you'll get a very twisted view of aviation, and likewise if all you ever read about is on PPRuNe about what CASA may be doing you'll end up convinced that anything you do, including nothing, can end you up in jail.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 11:42
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But if you give up here what will you endlessly complain about or tell people how awesome you are at?

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Old 13th Apr 2019, 12:30
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Originally Posted by CBR205 View Post
But if you give up here what will you endlessly complain about or tell people how awesome you are at?
Sailing. His other love. He could complain about jet skis, the yacht club, other boat owners, insurance companies, mooring fees, industry events, the boat show, boat surveyors, Water Police or maybe AMSA.

Don't worry, there's plenty of scope for things to complain about !

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Old 13th Apr 2019, 12:43
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Well owning a boat and a plane is the mistake. After all if it floats, flys or something else... cheaper to rent than buy.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 17:50
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CBR205 you are right with those three.

... and have you seen the regulations for alcohol, fire protection, health and safety and a dozen other minefields when you open a whorehouse these days?

Even the piano player gets Award.
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