The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Buying your first aircraft NZ

Old 13th Jan 2019, 06:35
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Buying your first aircraft NZ

Hi Everyone,

Firstly I hope this is posted in the correct place.

I am intending to purchase a single engine (probably Cessna 150 or 170) for getting my ppl and building up my hours in the next couple of years and i have some questions.
  • where is the best the best place to look for second hand aircraft in NZ, I know you can look on trademe but I am wondering if there is other places?
  • Where is the best place to get aircraft spares in NZ?
  • What companies can i go to for aircraft insurance.
  • Where is the best place to find a LAME?
  • What is the approximate tie down cost.


i apologize for the questions but I need advice. If you can answer my queries or have any general advice thank you in advance.

Fly Guy NZ
FlyGuyNZ is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 04:19
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 3rd Rock
Posts: 85
I do not mean any offence to you but your questions suggest that you are not only learning to fly (congratulations) but you are very unfamiliar with the industry.

Like most of us when starting out, you dont know what you dont know and you would save yourself alot of money and grief by doing your PPL wih a school or club and then consider purchasing an aircraft.
Lapon is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 04:29
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Age: 31
Posts: 197
Yes, as per the above comment, be aware that buying your own aircraft to do a PPL in is a lot more expensive than hiring an aircraft through a club, and unless you are intending to fly it very regularly (say a hundred hours a year or more) is really not an economical investment. I would also be very careful buying an aeroplane on Trademe; there are often a lot of hidden costs which aren't apparent to someone new to the industry - too many things to list here but, for example, an unusually cheap aeroplane may be in need of an engine overhaul which in some cases could cost more than double or even triple what you paid for the aeroplane.
NZFlyingKiwi is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 05:59
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,218
I purchased my own aircraft to do my licence in and I’ve never looked back.

As much as it may not seem to be the right thing to do, I recommend the most expensive / biggest / fastest aircraft that you can comfortably afford as this will stop you from needing to upgrade early on and this wasting cash. You will likely outgrow a 150 very early on in your private flying “career.”

Plenty of people that can afford it, purchase their own aircraft straight up.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 08:10
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
I do not mean any offence to you but your questions suggest that you are not only learning to fly (congratulations) but you are very unfamiliar with the industry.

Like most of us when starting out, you dont know what you dont know and you would save yourself alot of money and grief by doing your PPL wih a school or club and then consider purchasing an aircraft.
Hi Lapon,

No offence taken. Thanks for the reply i would say im probably reasonably familiar with the industry at least as someone who hasn't worked in the aviation industry.

I'm sure i don't know alot that is why I am endeavoring to find out more and this site seemed a good starting point.
FlyGuyNZ is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 08:14
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by NZFlyingKiwi View Post
Yes, as per the above comment, be aware that buying your own aircraft to do a PPL in is a lot more expensive than hiring an aircraft through a club, and unless you are intending to fly it very regularly (say a hundred hours a year or more) is really not an economical investment. I would also be very careful buying an aeroplane on Trademe; there are often a lot of hidden costs which aren't apparent to someone new to the industry - too many things to list here but, for example, an unusually cheap aeroplane may be in need of an engine overhaul which in some cases could cost more than double or even triple what you paid for the aeroplane.
Hi thanks for the reply, Yes I am aware that buying an aircraft is an expensive undertaking and plan to use it for PPL and hours building as i mentioned in the original post. Your comments on Trademe don't surprise me at all which is why I asked for alternative suggestions
FlyGuyNZ is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 08:19
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
I purchased my own aircraft to do my licence in and I’ve never looked back.

As much as it may not seem to be the right thing to do, I recommend the most expensive / biggest / fastest aircraft that you can comfortably afford as this will stop you from needing to upgrade early on and this wasting cash. You will likely outgrow a 150 very early on in your private flying “career.”

Plenty of people that can afford it, purchase their own aircraft straight up.
Hi Squawk,

Thanks for the reply. Your advice is most welcome and i understand that a 150 is comparabley slower and i plan on getting the best I can.

Recent circumstance changes mean this is a more realistic dream than it once was but I still intend to take a year or two to save up and prepare etc
FlyGuyNZ is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 19:25
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 342
where is the best the best place to look for second hand aircraft in NZ, I know you can look on trademe but I am wondering if there is other places?
There are several aircraft dealers in NZ. A quick google search will find them.

Where is the best place to get aircraft spares in NZ?
Through your LAME or maintenance organization.

What companies can i go to for aircraft insurance?
Again, there are a few NZ companies that deal specifically with aviation insurance. Google them.

Where is the best place to find a LAME?
Pretty sure there will be an outfit at Invercargill airport (never been there). Otherwise definitely at Taieri or Mandeville.

What is the approximate tie down cost.
That entirely depends on where you choose to keep it. Airport companies are notoriously greedy so the larger airports tend to charge a lot. You may find a smaller country airfield where you can get a decent price for a hangar lease, but then you run the risk of it being a long way away from your house.

Good luck and welcome aboard!
flyinkiwi is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 21:28
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,218
Originally Posted by FlyGuyNZ View Post
Hi Squawk,

Thanks for the reply. Your advice is most welcome and i understand that a 150 is comparabley slower and i plan on getting the best I can.

Recent circumstance changes mean this is a more realistic dream than it once was but I still intend to take a year or two to save up and prepare etc
Hey, if the 150 is a step up from a microlight trike then sure, go ahead. We can’t all afford a Cirrus, myself included!

Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 23:51
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 3rd Rock
Posts: 85
I have been out of the light aircraft scene for quite a while but continuing the discussion if you do go down the purchasing road (which I didn't) I would seek the opinion of a local Lame/maintainance provider before you go shopping.
The NZ GA fleet is fairly small so you may find a better option is to import from overseas but again your LAME will help steer you in the right direction.

If I was to purchase an aircraft I would aim for a four seater over a two seater for comfort and practicality. I have always considered the C182 an ideal aircraft for private flying in NZ but it's probably not ideal for ab-initio training.

If your determined to buy something to learn in, have you considered a C150/170 series syndicate? You will have some of the benefits of ownership with the added benefit of pooled knowledge and organisation assuming it is run properly.
Lapon is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 23:55
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Thanks for the reply you have given me plenty to research

I guess it'll all depend on budgeting and financial considerations when it comes time, Thanks for the advice
FlyGuyNZ is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2019, 05:40
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Age: 31
Posts: 197
Couple of additional suggestions that might get you pointed in the right direction, for purchases outside of TradeMe, Dennis Thompson at Ardmore is a good person to talk to, he has been selling aircraft out of Ardmore since the '60s. AvSure are an aviation specific insurance company, also based at Ardmore, used by a lot of people. In Invercargill you'll find Invercargill Aircraft Maintenance on the airfield, otherwise there's Southair at Taieri or Flightline in Dunedin.

If you can find an experienced LAME who is happy to sit down and talk to you for a few hours you'll be able to get a comprehensive idea of what exactly to look for when purchasing aircraft, but some basic things to look for are engine hours remaining as I mentioned above, whether the annual inspection is current, whether there's any corrosion work that needs doing (this is an absolute killer in NZ and Australia and the reason many older GA machines end up selling for peanuts) and also try to avoid obscure/small volume production aircraft types unless there is a very good owner's club/marketplace through which spares and support can be readily obtained. Again a LAME's knowledge will be a huge help with all of that.
NZFlyingKiwi is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2019, 06:33
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,931
Originally Posted by NZFlyingKiwi View Post
If you can find an experienced LAME who is happy to sit down and talk to you for a few hours you'll be able to get a comprehensive idea of what exactly to look for when purchasing aircraft, but some basic things to look for are engine hours remaining as I mentioned above, whether the annual inspection is current, whether there's any corrosion work that needs doing (this is an absolute killer in NZ and Australia and the reason many older GA machines end up selling for peanuts) and also try to avoid obscure/small volume production aircraft types unless there is a very good owner's club/marketplace through which spares and support can be readily obtained. Again a LAME's knowledge will be a huge help with all of that.
Offer to pay the LAMEs hourly rate for the time he takes to sit down with you ( and when you get down to one or two possibles, you will need a proper comprehensive pre-buy inspection, which will be money well spent) that will increase his time available.
They do have to earn a living.
Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2019, 06:43
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by NZFlyingKiwi View Post
Couple of additional suggestions that might get you pointed in the right direction, for purchases outside of TradeMe, Dennis Thompson at Ardmore is a good person to talk to, he has been selling aircraft out of Ardmore since the '60s. AvSure are an aviation specific insurance company, also based at Ardmore, used by a lot of people. In Invercargill you'll find Invercargill Aircraft Maintenance on the airfield, otherwise there's Southair at Taieri or Flightline in Dunedin.

If you can find an experienced LAME who is happy to sit down and talk to you for a few hours you'll be able to get a comprehensive idea of what exactly to look for when purchasing aircraft, but some basic things to look for are engine hours remaining as I mentioned above, whether the annual inspection is current, whether there's any corrosion work that needs doing (this is an absolute killer in NZ and Australia and the reason many older GA machines end up selling for peanuts) and also try to avoid obscure/small volume production aircraft types unless there is a very good owner's club/marketplace through which spares and support can be readily obtained. Again a LAME's knowledge will be a huge help with all of that.
Thanks for the reply, I will definitely make sure too get an extensive pre buy inspection preformed, your comment about low volume aircraft is partially why im looking into Cessna.
FlyGuyNZ is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2019, 08:27
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 336
It has been many years since I was at Flightline in Dunedin, but they were a pretty big company back then. That is often not the best for a new aircraft owner as there is too many layers of management. There where certainly some good LAME's there then.

Call around the clubs or drop a question on the local flying web pages (ask for PM reply's only) for the best maintenance organisations and even best LAME's around.

Find your potential budget now and what you can throw at it each year. That is needed to guide you and work with component overhaul costs or future costs.

Another big caution is aircraft that have sat for a fair amount of time - many engines fail at 50 - 200 hours later, often due to camshaft/lifter corrosion. Common on Lycoming as no easy/cheap way to look at them in an inspection.

A LAME would probable have a chat about the basics to conciser for a few drinks and a meal at the local drinking place, but a good pre purchase is pretty close to an Annual Inspection cost (less on parts but more on log book research), but this cost is often then well balanced in the final purchase price negotiation.

A C182 would certainly be a target machine, but in that price range, that many do not even think about are some C206's. The operating costs are also very similar including fuel burn believe it or not.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2019, 19:36
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 99
If you are awash with cash, check Oceania: https://www.oceania-aviation.com/

They have a couple of very nice 182s and a very decent 206. Also, talk to Dennis Thompson in Ardmore - he charges a lot but he is very experience and knowledgable seller.
sgenie is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2019, 01:56
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,931
Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post

A LAME would probable have a chat about the basics to conciser for a few drinks and a meal at the local drinking place, but a good pre purchase is pretty close to an Annual Inspection cost (less on parts but more on log book research), but this cost is often then well balanced in the final purchase price negotiation.

.
Excellent advice, if you flinch at the cost, you probably can't afford the whole deal. A good pre-buy will save you not just money, but heartache.
Re. rusted cams, be particularly wary of Lycoming engines.
Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2019, 06:01
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Age: 31
Posts: 197
Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Offer to pay the LAMEs hourly rate for the time he takes to sit down with you ( and when you get down to one or two possibles, you will need a proper comprehensive pre-buy inspection, which will be money well spent) that will increase his time available.
They do have to earn a living.
Tootle pip!!
Absolutely, agreed with that 100%.
NZFlyingKiwi is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2019, 07:25
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Hi NZFlyingKiwi,

Thank you for the name of Mr Thompson, I have had several people mention him and will keep him in mind.

Yea I have seen AvSure in my searches and will most likely talk to them.
FlyGuyNZ is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2019, 07:28
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Invercargill
Posts: 11
Hi Bendalot I would love a 182 but I imagine that will likely be out of my price range so ill probably look at least a 172
FlyGuyNZ is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.