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Can you fly with expired ASIC?

Old 27th Oct 2018, 00:44
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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That exemption at Moorabbin, mentioned a few years ago, was on the CASA site but disappeared very shortly after it was highlighted on here.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 02:26
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Red face

Don't need one at Parafield. And that was straight from the Airport's on site office. As a side note: if you hold a gate swipe card as those based there do for 24hr access airside and have an ASIC they will align it with your ASIC to cancel when the ASIC does. Then you need to re apply every 2 years along with the ASIC.
If you don't hold an ASIC you get a 2 year life on one anyway. They will be running CASA next!#!!
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 04:27
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
Are you mad, CC?

If a PIC does not have a current ASIC the aircraft will be consequentially unairworthy and the pilot consequentially incompetent.

Frankly Iím surprised youíd make such a dangerous assertion.
well fan my brow; I've got a RAAus licence, no ASIC, and I fly. it never occurred to me that my lack of ASIC might make the jab unairworthy.
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 04:39
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Is an ASIC an automatic right to go airside or do you also need an operational need, eg. I parked my aircraft on the apron at Essendon, hence my right to be airside at that airport?

If you need to go (say for operational reasons) from First Ave. to Northern Ave., which is a bit of a lengthy walk, could you just "cut straight across" the free movement apron on foot if you have your ASIC on?
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 04:50
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Okihara View Post
Is an ASIC an automatic right to go airside or do you also need an operational need ...
An ASIC is necessary but not sufficient - eg I can't front up at YMML and demand to go out on the apron with my ASIC. But I can get a discount on my coffee ...
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 06:24
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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But I can get a discount on my coffee ...
Seriously? At YMML? Any cafe?
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 09:31
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Okihara View Post
Seriously? At YMML? Any cafe?
Certainly not all of them. There is wording in the ASIC paperwork that mentions using it for then purpose for which it was intended. Flashing it at YMML which is effectively you representing yourself as an airport worker, is not.

You can also also use it to have the fees waived at Travelex when you convert your overseas holiday money :-)

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Old 27th Oct 2018, 10:39
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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An ASIC is just that - an identity card. It means you have undergone a standardised check of your background. That's all. It is just one part of the security control measures airports are required by law to implement to control access to various designated parts of the aerodrome. You also have to be an "authorised person" ie not one of these:

unauthorised person, in relation to a place or thing, means a person who:

(a) is not authorised by the owner or person in control of the place or thing to have access to the place or thing; and

(b) has no other lawful reason to have access to the place or thing.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 04:42
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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As I understand it, an ASIC is only required for airside access to the "security restricted areas" of certain airports. It is required at no other times.

Has this changed? What and where is the rule that says you need one to fly?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 05:53
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FGD135 View Post
As I understand it, an ASIC is only required for airside access to the "security restricted areas" of certain airports. It is required at no other times.

Has this changed? What and where is the rule that says you need one to fly?
- Some airports require it for all areas airside.
- Some airports require it to be displayed within the blue line area(s).
- Certain areas require it to be airside within a certain timeframe either side of an RPT arrival.

AFAIK you need approved photo ID to fly GA, so therefore an ASIC or an AVID (unless that one has changed recently?)
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 10:57
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Squawk7700,

Some airports require it for all areas airside.
With very few exceptions, if there is an ASIC display requirement then it applies to all areas airside. I seem to call Moorabbin had a specific area at one time when they had RPT operating out of there that required you to display an ASIC.
Some airports require it to be displayed within the blue line area(s).
That was a home baked solution to get around the screening requirement of non-RPT aircraft departing off the same apron. CASA didn't like the practice of non standard apron markings being painted and the change in reqs back in about 2011 there was not longer a need for it.
Certain areas require it to be airside within a certain timeframe either side of an RPT arrival.
That exemption applies to airports that do not have screened RPT services. The "Traffic Period" is two hours prior to the arrival until two hours after the departure of the RPT service. Creates an interesting question where the airport operators Transport Security Program might say a person has to display an ASIC at all times yet the regs allow for something else. Would be a good argument you could have with the airport staff if, on the unlikely chance they ask "where is your ASIC" and you say you are operating within the provisions of Regulation 3.03(4a).
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 11:20
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Can you fly with expired ASIC?

Maybe if everyone did, the authorities might get the message! Or price it more realistically.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 12:16
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The department has been very cunning in that regard and push 95% of compliance checking back onto the poor old airport operator who has no enforcement powers. Except for reporting or denying access
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 14:44
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, Squark7700. Nothing in the below about an ASIC or an AVID:


CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 139

Documents to be carried in Australian aircraft

(1) Subject to subregulation (2), the pilot in command of an aircraft, when flying, must carry on the aircraft:

(a) its certificate of registration;

(b) its certificate of airworthiness;

(c) if Part 42 of CASR does not apply to the aircraft--unless CASA otherwise approves, its maintenance release and any other document approved for use as an alternative to the maintenance release for the purposes of a provision of these Regulations;

(d) unless CASA otherwise approves, the licences and medical certificates of the operating crew;

(e) the flight manual (if any) for the aircraft;

(f) any licence in force with respect to the radio equipment in the aircraft;

(g) if the aircraft is carrying passengers--a list of the names, places of embarkation and places of destination of the passengers;

(h) if the aircraft is carrying cargo--the bills of lading and manifests with respect to the cargo.

Penalty: 10 penalty units.

(2) An aircraft operating wholly within Australian territory is not required, when flying, to carry a document specified in paragraph (1)(a), (b), (f) or (g).

(3) An aircraft that is operated under an AOC need not carry its flight manual when flying if it carries on board an operations manual that:

(a) contains the information and instructions that are required, under the relevant airworthiness standards for the aircraft, to be included in the flight manual; and

(b) does not contain anything that conflicts with the information or instructions.

(4) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .

(5) Subregulation (1) does not apply to the pilot in command if the flight was authorised by a special flight permit issued under regulation 21.197 of CASR.

Note: A defendant bears an evidential burden in relation to the matters in subregulation (5) (see subsection 13.3(3) of the Criminal Code ).
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 22:13
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FGD135 View Post
Thanks, Squark7700. Nothing in the below about an ASIC or an AVID:


CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 139

Documents to be carried in Australian aircraft

(1) Subject to subregulation (2), the pilot in command of an aircraft, when flying, must carry on the aircraft:

(a) its certificate of registration;

(b) its certificate of airworthiness;

(c) if Part 42 of CASR does not apply to the aircraft--unless CASA otherwise approves, its maintenance release and any other document approved for use as an alternative to the maintenance release for the purposes of a provision of these Regulations;

(d) unless CASA otherwise approves, the licences and medical certificates of the operating crew;

(e) the flight manual (if any) for the aircraft;

(f) any licence in force with respect to the radio equipment in the aircraft;

(g) if the aircraft is carrying passengers--a list of the names, places of embarkation and places of destination of the passengers;

(h) if the aircraft is carrying cargo--the bills of lading and manifests with respect to the cargo.

Penalty: 10 penalty units.

(2) An aircraft operating wholly within Australian territory is not required, when flying, to carry a document specified in paragraph (1)(a), (b), (f) or (g).

(3) An aircraft that is operated under an AOC need not carry its flight manual when flying if it carries on board an operations manual that:

(a) contains the information and instructions that are required, under the relevant airworthiness standards for the aircraft, to be included in the flight manual; and

(b) does not contain anything that conflicts with the information or instructions.

(4) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .

(5) Subregulation (1) does not apply to the pilot in command if the flight was authorised by a special flight permit issued under regulation 21.197 of CASR.

Note: A defendant bears an evidential burden in relation to the matters in subregulation (5) (see subsection 13.3(3) of the Criminal Code ).
Nothing there about pilotís licence or medical either!
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 23:21
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Tankengine, have a look at subparagraph 1 (d).
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 23:57
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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ASIC/AVID has nothing/nil/nada/nought/zippo/diddly-squat/FA/SFA/not a RA to do with CASA. It's not their party.
Aviation Transport Security Regulation 6.55.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 01:11
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cooperplace View Post
well fan my brow; I've got a RAAus licence, no ASIC, and I fly. it never occurred to me that my lack of ASIC might make the jab unairworthy.
Cooperplace,
You miss the obvious, RAOz issue a certificate, not a license, so one must infer that "licensed" pilots, as opposed to "permitted" pilots, pose a much greater potential threat to national security. That figures, given the system of crims being let out of jail "on licence".

Seriously, airport's/aerodrome's decisions about being "security declared" have been grossly abused by aerodrome operators, usually in the pursuit of the subsidies available for fences etc. for "security purposes". Or trying to attract RPT operators by showing that "their" security already meets RPT requirements. Or so the local Mayor/President of Council can "boast" about how "safe" their "airport" is !!

Tootle pip!!

Last edited by LeadSled; 29th Oct 2018 at 01:15. Reason: text added.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 01:42
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, thunderbird five.

So, according to the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005, a cockie needs an ASIC/AVID to fly his C172 from paddock A to paddock B.

That figures. Always more bureaucracy. Ever increasing bureaucracy.

That regulation here:

http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/...457/s6.55.html
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 01:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Correct for the cockie driver. But not his RAAus registered C150A (for example). A costly pointless exercise for honest VH aviators, while totally exempting equally honest RAAus aviators who often fly the exact same aircraft from the exact same airfield. Does that pass the pub test? No. How can one team be a threat to national security, and the other team not? Either we all are, or we all aren't. 10,000 (whatever) RAAus members prove there is no threat. Therefore I decline to subscribe to that BS. They can insert their ASIC into the nearest card reader. Just say NO.
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