Last light question
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If the planned flight time between Archerfield YBAF (S2734 E15300) and Mackay YBMK (S2110 E14911)
is 140 min, the latest time you could plan to depart YBAF on May 27th is:
– 1. 270533 UTC
– 2. 270513 UTC
– 3. 270503 UTC
– 4. 270523 UTC
Regarding:
The exercise is partly to determine what the last light at Mackay is. I used the VFRG and double-checked my result with NAIPS. It seems highly unlikely that there could be as much as 20 minutes of difference using VFRG vs AIP though.
Last edited by Okihara; 27th Aug 2018 at 13:35.
wtf isn't there a simple definition and an authorized method of calculating latest vfr landing time enshrined in simple regulation? Wtf were people thinking? simply select one definition of last light one set of conversions between civil, nautical and astronomical one method of calculating and one method of approximating. Then the earliest or latest becomes your legal planning figure.
What do the yanks do? how hard can it be?
What do the yanks do? how hard can it be?
Day VMC in Australia is from the beginning of morning civil twilight to the end of evening civil twilight, both are legally defined.
But CASA makes it complicated by having multiple ways of "estimating" the time.
Not applicable in the US, everything from a PPL up includes night flying automatically, there is no "Night VFR Rating".
Tootle pip!!
I would have picked ‘C’.
As observed by LeadSled earlier in the thread, the 10 minute margin has been in AIP forever. I suspect that deep in the bowels of the transitional provisions from the ANRs/ANOs to CARs/CAOs there will be some savings provision for a piece of parchment, issued by the Secretary under the ANRs or ANOs while the Harbour Bridge was being built, determining the 10 minute margin requirement.
As observed by LeadSled earlier in the thread, the 10 minute margin has been in AIP forever. I suspect that deep in the bowels of the transitional provisions from the ANRs/ANOs to CARs/CAOs there will be some savings provision for a piece of parchment, issued by the Secretary under the ANRs or ANOs while the Harbour Bridge was being built, determining the 10 minute margin requirement.
Last light YBMK 27 May is 270753 UTC
You should plan to arrive by 270743 at latest (10 minutes before last light - AIP 1.2 1.1.2b)
flight time is 2:20 (140 minutes).
Assuming there is no prior requirement for holding at YBMK or enroute
I would also say the answer is #4 - depart at latest 070523 (07:43 - 2:20)
(In real life - I would give a different answer though!)
You should plan to arrive by 270743 at latest (10 minutes before last light - AIP 1.2 1.1.2b)
flight time is 2:20 (140 minutes).
Assuming there is no prior requirement for holding at YBMK or enroute
I would also say the answer is #4 - depart at latest 070523 (07:43 - 2:20)
(In real life - I would give a different answer though!)
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Ah-ha, much obliged, folks. Interesting to see that a seemingly simple can trigger such a discussion/digression.
In the absence of any TAF mentioned in the question, I'd assume that only the 10 min before last light rule applies here and will call answer #4, ie. 270523 the correct one
The more confusing part of this thread is that one of you is LeadSled and the other is Lead Balloon.
In the absence of any TAF mentioned in the question, I'd assume that only the 10 min before last light rule applies here and will call answer #4, ie. 270523 the correct one
The more confusing part of this thread is that one of you is LeadSled and the other is Lead Balloon.
Looks like D is the legally correct answer, if the 10 minutes margin is assumed to be a rule. There doesn’t seem to be anything in ERSA requiring special holding provision for VFR flights into Mackay.
Folks,
Perhaps we should look at the examination instructions.
How many of you recall, some time back, such instructions for a CASA multi-choice examination said words to the effect: "If no right answer, check the least wrong".
There have been many cases, over the years where lore and law on a particular aviation subject have been confused, not to be confused with "policy" versus "law".
ie: Does the C.of G of a DC-3/C-47 change when the undercarriage is retracted. Engineering answer: Yes. Policy answer, hence the exam answer: No.
Tootle pip!!
Perhaps we should look at the examination instructions.
How many of you recall, some time back, such instructions for a CASA multi-choice examination said words to the effect: "If no right answer, check the least wrong".
There have been many cases, over the years where lore and law on a particular aviation subject have been confused, not to be confused with "policy" versus "law".
ie: Does the C.of G of a DC-3/C-47 change when the undercarriage is retracted. Engineering answer: Yes. Policy answer, hence the exam answer: No.
Tootle pip!!
Is it moi going 'nuts' or wot.....?
A LL of 0523, or 05xx anything would be around 1523 EST..... i.e. 23 mins past 3pm EST...??
(Global Dark Ages onset?)
What is the use of using ANY daylight graphs to ascertain a 'sensible' answer for this seemingly 'stoopid' question..??
With a LL of so early in the arvo, I don't think anyone would be flying anywhere VFR.
The planet would obviously be 'cooling down' due lack of sunlight, and the weather would probably be 'Winter IMC' anyway - perhaps the result of too much volcanic activity, or animal methane production affecting the Ozone Layer, or too much B/S factor emanating from Cantberra, or Josh F and his 'NEG' taking effect, or......pick reason of choice.
Or, am I missing something??
Aye Leadsled, I used to wonder wot happened in the ole DC-3 when the hostie of the day was walking up and down the aisle serving …..
Whoops, there she goes again Skipper...Trim 'up' ...trim 'down'....??
Or, did 'George' take care of it..?
Cheerrsss....
A LL of 0523, or 05xx anything would be around 1523 EST..... i.e. 23 mins past 3pm EST...??
(Global Dark Ages onset?)
What is the use of using ANY daylight graphs to ascertain a 'sensible' answer for this seemingly 'stoopid' question..??
With a LL of so early in the arvo, I don't think anyone would be flying anywhere VFR.
The planet would obviously be 'cooling down' due lack of sunlight, and the weather would probably be 'Winter IMC' anyway - perhaps the result of too much volcanic activity, or animal methane production affecting the Ozone Layer, or too much B/S factor emanating from Cantberra, or Josh F and his 'NEG' taking effect, or......pick reason of choice.
Or, am I missing something??
Aye Leadsled, I used to wonder wot happened in the ole DC-3 when the hostie of the day was walking up and down the aisle serving …..
Whoops, there she goes again Skipper...Trim 'up' ...trim 'down'....??
Or, did 'George' take care of it..?
Cheerrsss....
yes... you are confusing time of departure with ETA
Wot ole school teacher would have said -
Griffo….Write 100 times....
"I MUST READ THE Fec*^in QUESTION FIRST...BEFORE opening mouth" ...so to speak....
TA
Griffo….Write 100 times....
"I MUST READ THE Fec*^in QUESTION FIRST...BEFORE opening mouth" ...so to speak....
TA
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Is it moi going 'nuts' or wot.....?
Aye Leadsled, I used to wonder wot happened in the ole DC-3 when the hostie of the day was walking up and down the aisle serving …..
Whoops, there she goes again Skipper...Trim 'up' ...trim 'down'....??
Or, did 'George' take care of it..?
Cheerrsss....
Aye Leadsled, I used to wonder wot happened in the ole DC-3 when the hostie of the day was walking up and down the aisle serving …..
Whoops, there she goes again Skipper...Trim 'up' ...trim 'down'....??
Or, did 'George' take care of it..?
Cheerrsss....
Good One Harry...……..
Ta
p.s. When Flying a Victa Airtourer, that could be done.
Set the 'mechanical' trim to nearest notch, then adjust throttle so that trim is purrfect,....then lean back.... / forward..... and watch.......
The houses get smaller, the houses get bigger...….
Cheers
Ta
p.s. When Flying a Victa Airtourer, that could be done.
Set the 'mechanical' trim to nearest notch, then adjust throttle so that trim is purrfect,....then lean back.... / forward..... and watch.......
The houses get smaller, the houses get bigger...….
Cheers
