more on pilot shortages
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At the final PPL exams, about 80% dropped out, because they could not pass the CASA "trick question" examination.
Whether we like it or not and whether the comment is correct/fair or not, the reality is that there are two components to getting a tick in any of the CASA examinations (and I've sat quite a few over the years). First, one should know the material as that is the underlying reason for the whole exercise and, second, each exam is an area of study somewhat separate to the theory content and getting that elusive pass is a bit of an art form in itself. It doesn't seem to matter what area the exam is in or in what year we are looking ...
A recent area of interest to me is maintenance licencing and, in particular at present, the weight control examinations. They, certainly, are not at all technically difficult but the anecdotal suggestion is that the first time fail rate (especially in the second exam) is horrendous. Graduate engineers, who should be able to walk the work in, fall by the wayside in droves and the poor old maintainers also have a hard time of it.
Thinking back many years to when I was actively involved in pilot theory training, it was the same. Indeed, I did my pilot subjects 50-odd years ago and it was no different to now ... you learned the work and then learned how to pass the exam. Two quite distinct areas of endeavour.
Presuming that most folk who pony up to the exams actually want to pass, I suspect that the principal reason for the failure rate is that folk self-studying get the knowledge bit covered to a reasonable degree but then hit the exam without having done an adequate preparation in specific exam technique. For those folk who have done classroom study and still experience high failure rates, perhaps the theory instructors and training organisations are not quite up to scratch ?
Whether we like it or not and whether the comment is correct/fair or not, the reality is that there are two components to getting a tick in any of the CASA examinations (and I've sat quite a few over the years). First, one should know the material as that is the underlying reason for the whole exercise and, second, each exam is an area of study somewhat separate to the theory content and getting that elusive pass is a bit of an art form in itself. It doesn't seem to matter what area the exam is in or in what year we are looking ...
A recent area of interest to me is maintenance licencing and, in particular at present, the weight control examinations. They, certainly, are not at all technically difficult but the anecdotal suggestion is that the first time fail rate (especially in the second exam) is horrendous. Graduate engineers, who should be able to walk the work in, fall by the wayside in droves and the poor old maintainers also have a hard time of it.
Thinking back many years to when I was actively involved in pilot theory training, it was the same. Indeed, I did my pilot subjects 50-odd years ago and it was no different to now ... you learned the work and then learned how to pass the exam. Two quite distinct areas of endeavour.
Presuming that most folk who pony up to the exams actually want to pass, I suspect that the principal reason for the failure rate is that folk self-studying get the knowledge bit covered to a reasonable degree but then hit the exam without having done an adequate preparation in specific exam technique. For those folk who have done classroom study and still experience high failure rates, perhaps the theory instructors and training organisations are not quite up to scratch ?
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Or is it the current generation are accustomed to getting an award just for participation...
.. some might think it churlish to have such views in the PC world which has been thrust upon us over the past few decades ..
.. some might think it churlish to have such views in the PC world which has been thrust upon us over the past few decades ..
you learned the work and then learned how to pass the exam. Two quite distinct areas of endeavour.
So many great minds who I have seen begin a PPL or CPL throw in the towel because engineering, IT or finance positions pay well from the get go. The current generation is a great example of the free market showing pilot positions aren't competitive in the world market and somethinf needs to be done if they want this generation to care about aviation.
How right you are.
Many years ago, CASA brought in an FAA examinations expert as a consultant, he was aghast at the "trick questions" that featured so prominently, in all CASA written exams. One series of ATPL exams, I don't think anybody passed, which some in CASA saw as "maintaining high air safety standards".
To any the suggestion that the FAA system "worked" , the then CASA Assistant Director, Standards went apoplectic: " But if you do that, all the candidate has to do is learn the answers to the 1200 (?) questions".
To which the FAA man replied: "But isn't that what you want, for the candidate to know the answers to all the topics".
What became very obvious is that FAA saw and sees written exams as just part of multiple assessments that each candidate must go through on the way to a license at any level, including being "oraled" up to 100% on any deficiencies in the writtens, before a flight test.
On the other hand CASA saw and sees the "written" as a flaming hoop of fire to be jumped through, not really as part of a co-herehnt continuing assessment. Failing the "flaming hoop" test was/is just part of "maintaining the world's highest air safety standards".
Which is another fiction, behind which CASA hides.
Tootle pip!!
PS: One of the things we discovered, at the time, is that nobody in CASA had the training and qualifications to understand the theory of how to use multiple choice questions to properly assess knowledge of the subject, as opposed to subjective interpretation of the question writer's English language "tricks" style.
.So, according to that estimation, 60% dropped out before starting flying training, and at the end only 10% finished the course.That's not great odds.
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Flying is not for everyone. It has always been thus.
Not everyone will pass the medical.
Not everyone will pass the exams. Regardless of which system.
Not everyone has the aptitude/ coordination/ spare RAM to pick it up.
We have all seen individuals struggle - 5 or 10 or 15 attempts at an exam or flight test to qualify, then end badly shortly thereafter. Wonder why...
Fewer people now are willing, I believe, to take on a challenge where the outcome/ rewards are not certain. I think it is common across the Western World.
Not everyone will pass the medical.
Not everyone will pass the exams. Regardless of which system.
Not everyone has the aptitude/ coordination/ spare RAM to pick it up.
We have all seen individuals struggle - 5 or 10 or 15 attempts at an exam or flight test to qualify, then end badly shortly thereafter. Wonder why...
Fewer people now are willing, I believe, to take on a challenge where the outcome/ rewards are not certain. I think it is common across the Western World.
In my experience the first time pass rate is about 70% and the second attempt 95% pass. Interestingly the results are no better for people who have attended theory classes whether at TAFE or university to those that self study. It seems a shame if people have dropped out completely at the first attempt at the PPL exam.
IMO the PPL subjects should be divided up into four smaller exams and the questions all completely overhauled.
IMO the PPL subjects should be divided up into four smaller exams and the questions all completely overhauled.
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I don't know, LeadSled, maybe the answer lies somewhere in between.
Covering the entire FAA CPL syllabus in a weekend and boasting a 95% pass rate sounds suss to me.
Some schools in the US offer this, and have done for some time.
Covering the entire FAA CPL syllabus in a weekend and boasting a 95% pass rate sounds suss to me.
Some schools in the US offer this, and have done for some time.
While CASA exams may be a part of the issue I don't believe they are the main issue, the real issue is that most of those who drop out don't put in the effort.
Fee-Help and university pilot courses have lead to a dramatic increase in the number of students who are doing flight training not because they have a real passion for flying but because it looks cool or because being a pilot looks great on tinder (they and there potential matches don't realise that once they graduate, they'll be heading up north to Alice Springs or something....) this 'coolness' quickly wares of once the exams come around especially CPL exams in a full time coarse where your often doing an exam every 2 weeks - i've been there and even I felt like giving up at 11PM the night before an exam!
Before fee-help with the amount of investment required only the passionate (and crazy) took up flight training and most of these people get though. Don't get me wrong some of these guys who take it up just because its cool do succeed but many don't.
Don't get me wrong fee-help is a good thing, I would have never took up this career if it didn't coming from a regional town with no flying school and a disadvantaged family funding my flight training would have been impossible.
BTW i'm an instructor at one of the fee-help schools and we can all tell by about week 2 who wants to be there and whose going to finish.
Fee-Help and university pilot courses have lead to a dramatic increase in the number of students who are doing flight training not because they have a real passion for flying but because it looks cool or because being a pilot looks great on tinder (they and there potential matches don't realise that once they graduate, they'll be heading up north to Alice Springs or something....) this 'coolness' quickly wares of once the exams come around especially CPL exams in a full time coarse where your often doing an exam every 2 weeks - i've been there and even I felt like giving up at 11PM the night before an exam!
Before fee-help with the amount of investment required only the passionate (and crazy) took up flight training and most of these people get though. Don't get me wrong some of these guys who take it up just because its cool do succeed but many don't.
Don't get me wrong fee-help is a good thing, I would have never took up this career if it didn't coming from a regional town with no flying school and a disadvantaged family funding my flight training would have been impossible.
BTW i'm an instructor at one of the fee-help schools and we can all tell by about week 2 who wants to be there and whose going to finish.
Actually, I do know.
Have a look at the US air safety outcomes (using ICAO standard statistical categories), beats Australia hands down, they must be doing something right.
As for the service providers and two day courses, in fact most candidates will have done a lot of work first, it is not a standing start, and all deficiencies are "oral-ed" up to 100% before any flight test. As I said, the "written" is only part of the multiple assessments on the way to a license, not an end in itself, not some magical hurdle, as it is here.
Tootle pip!!
I'm sorry, I'm a spelling and grammar Nazi, and I cannot go to bed without commenting, though I do so in a veiled attempt at constructive feedback.
Dead-set, logansi, you couldn't spell "SOS" if your life depended on it!
Otherwise, I agree with what I think you are attempting to spell out.
Dead-set, logansi, you couldn't spell "SOS" if your life depended on it!
Otherwise, I agree with what I think you are attempting to spell out.
I'm sorry, I'm a spelling and grammar Nazi, and I cannot go to bed without commenting, though I do so in a veiled attempt at constructive feedback.
Dead-set, logansi, you couldn't spell "SOS" if your life depended on it!
Otherwise, I agree with what I think you are attempting to spell out.
Dead-set, logansi, you couldn't spell "SOS" if your life depended on it!
Otherwise, I agree with what I think you are attempting to spell out.
Just had a read of my previous post and I agree! Don't know what got into me, typed it on my phone which may not have helped. Thankfully CASA don't require me to do a spelling test!
Don't know what got into me, typed it on my phone which may not have helped.
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" Have a look at the US air safety outcomes (using ICAO standard statistical categories), beats Australia hands down, they must be doing something right."
The pilots or the regulator?......
The pilots or the regulator?......
Regarding the FAA ATPL: My first three ATP Licenses were issued by Serious Important Regulators...including the UK. I thought myself pretty fancy for having those three certificates, then I went and did the “cereal box” FAA ATPL weekend course. As mentioned, most of those courses are about passing the exam, but they all assume the candidate has done the work. I in fact learned something from researching the odd answer to questions not previously considered.
Don't look down your nose at the FAA certificates, nor their odd way of concentrating on the useful. As properly conducted, aviation is mostly an application of the practical towards some useful end.
At least the FAA charter includes the mandate to promote (not prevent) aviation as well as regulate it.
Don't look down your nose at the FAA certificates, nor their odd way of concentrating on the useful. As properly conducted, aviation is mostly an application of the practical towards some useful end.
At least the FAA charter includes the mandate to promote (not prevent) aviation as well as regulate it.