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What would a cheap ADS-B base cost?

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What would a cheap ADS-B base cost?

Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:46
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight View Post
Research ICAO SARPs for ATS surveillance systems and ADS-B system integrity and monitoring for a start.

I don't think a rinky dinky $100 receiver quite cuts it.
Thanks, I found
https://www.icao.int/SAM/eDocuments/...%20English.pdf
That seems to have the answer the OP might be after.
georgeeipi is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 12:34
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: australia
Age: 76
Posts: 178
https://shop.jetvision.de/
would seem to cover all the physical requirements, of course CASA is a different story.,
https://www.flightradar24.com/business/data-services
  • Tailored feeds configured by fleet, airport, route or geographic region
  • In-flight position updates up to every 5 seconds
  • Available in JSON format, sent via secure websocket connection
  • Enhanced flight information available on request
Contact us

Historic data files

  • Historic flight tracking data specified by fleet, airport, route, time period or geographical region
  • Flight-track positions recorded up to every 5 seconds
  • Available in both JSON and CSV format, sent via secure download link
should handle the data handling needs with a proffessional membersip....but would it be good enough for.....
harrryw is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 13:18
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 87
It's not rocket science. The ADSB design/protocols are designed to ignore corrupted messages. So all it needs it needs is a series of receivers and a database system that removes duplicates (trivial).

Better yet, use multiple designs fro multiple manufacturers in order to avoid any sort of systemic issue in the software design.

Heck, mandate every NBN wireless tower to have 3 from 3 different manufacturers. Bandwidth is already there.

It's an absolute joke that NBN isn't used for this low bandwidth application.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 13:42
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
Posts: 2,155
How cheap? If you volunteer to provide the internet link and the data back to Flightradar24, and you are in an area they need to extend or expand their coverage, they'll give you the receiver.
Traffic_Is_Er_Was is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2018, 14:51
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 87
I know a few cockies in remote areas that have NBN Satellite that would happily give up a tiny amount of their Internet allocation to contribute to aircraft tracking and flight safety. Thanks for that.

For those others looking for links:
https://www.flightradar24.com/apply-for-receiver#apply

So when will FR24 and CASA/ASA start talking? Other govt agencies crowdsouce data, why not CASA/ASA?

Last edited by AbsoluteFokker; 18th Jul 2018 at 15:12. Reason: casa-fr24
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 01:48
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,942
Originally Posted by AbsoluteFokker View Post
I know a few cockies in remote areas that have NBN Satellite that would happily give up a tiny amount of their Internet allocation to contribute to aircraft tracking and flight safety. Thanks for that.

For those others looking for links:
https://www.flightradar24.com/apply-for-receiver#apply

So when will FR24 and CASA/ASA start talking? Other govt agencies crowdsouce data, why not CASA/ASA?
Folks,
With the greatest of respect, you are looking for a solution to a problem, out in the boonies, that simply does not exist.
Dick is talking about several coastal airfields, like Ballina, not the GAFFA.
Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 03:19
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
Posts: 2,155
I'm not looking for a solution, I'm just pointing out they aren't very expensive. A grid of receivers would cost F-all in the great scheme of things.
Traffic_Is_Er_Was is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 03:47
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Warrnambool
Age: 13
Posts: 106
I asked Paul Baker from flightaware some time ago about using this data for such a thing. He said it was too easily compromised." It works for me though.

Small computer running linux OS with results on screen, 11.23am 19/07/2018. It would be good to have a few peppered out in the never never. They can do multilateration calcs by tying in numbers ground based receivers. The blue thing is a battery powering the computer. It will run it for about 24 hours. 6000mah phone battery.






RPI Zero W $14.96
Rpi Power supply $19.95
USB otg host cable $ 5.00
Prostick rtf sir under $50
SD Card 8gb or bigger but 8 is enough. $??

Internet connection $???
400 gram empty tin can $ 0
cable fittings $ 5.00???
bit of cable $????

Last edited by Paul O'Rourke; 19th Jul 2018 at 03:58.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 07:09
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,059
Who exactly are you guys suggesting should use this gear and for what purpose?

If Airservices for air traffic control, ICAO standards apply for ATC surveillance equipment, systems, performance standards as well as air traffic management -

The SARPs aren't online as far as I am aware, but for an indication try googling something like "icao standards air traffic control surveillance ads-b".
CaptainMidnight is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2018, 12:30
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Folks,
With the greatest of respect, you are looking for a solution to a problem, out in the boonies, that simply does not exist.
Dick is talking about several coastal airfields, like Ballina, not the GAFFA.
Tootle pip!!
Pepper the country with them (multiple comms links, some satellite, some NBN, some 4G (there are some new 5G low bandwidth technologies coming too), fix into every aircraft, primary radar not needed!

Hmm where have I heard that before.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 12:52
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: YMML
Posts: 1,695
It might suit the single seat rubber band and sticky tape fleet but they've gone so far down the rabbit hole we need to send in the ferrets.
le Pingouin is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2018, 09:01
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,527
le pingouin, at some stage ADSB receivers become cheap and generic. At that point you can afford multiple copies and a throw away spares and backup (on condition) strategy exactly as you would for a common light bulb. certification then becomes irrelevant.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2018, 09:43
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,942
Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight View Post
Who exactly are you guys suggesting should use this gear and for what purpose?

.
Folks,
Exactly, as I have already asked ----- with no answer: "What is the problem, to which this is the answer".

Sadly, with ever diminishing GA, and CASA starting to get its micro-management sticky fingers into RAOz/GFA/AWAL/etc., (all in the interests of safety, you understand) the potential collision risk is diminishing daily, the answer to "traffic information" is increasingly not just "No known traffic" but "what traffic".

A few places I was at in central Queensland, a few months back, there was NO traffic, not a light aircraft movement to be seen.

A few days in Longreach, apart from RPT, and one bankrunner per day, I was staying close to the airfield, the sound of engines??? Near as nil as makes no difference.

Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2018, 11:19
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 87
I've also been in Controlled Airspace, doing a clockwise orbit of the city, told that there was a twin at the same level a few NM away approaching the city and I reported something along the lines of aircraft not sighted, will keep lookout. 1.5 min later rapid evasive action required. If that's what radar does for us, I'd far rather have an LCD display flashing and beeping a traffic alert with a direction and distance.

The controller in question could easily have separated us by 500ft vertically but thought that a visual lookout was fine (it wasn't). Maybe the twin didn't know what clockwise was, but that controller sure didn't watch us either.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 16:16
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: YMML
Posts: 1,695
Sunfish, you're still somewhere down that rabbit hole. I very much doubt that will ever happen when we're talking about services being provided to RPT aircraft.
le Pingouin is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2018, 04:02
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,942
Folks,
If you are so freaked out by the collision risk potential with ADS-B equipped aircraft in Class G over most of Australia, might I suggest an alternative mode of transport/sport/hobby.
Failing that, get yourself ADS-B IN, you can get portable el cheapo sets to sit on the glareshield. Just remember, they are no substitute for eyes, and can actually be quite misleading --- as I know from both specification and experience.
AsA is not going to be providing you a "service" any time soon. Indeed, not ever, for VFR in G in all but very limited and unique circumstances.
Tootle pip!!
PS: The proper answer at Ballina and the like is Class E airspace ---- the US/International definition (VFR exempt) of E, not the Australian version.
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